New Water Pump leaking on 48 Desoto

[MarcDeSoto]

I am wondering now if it is bad enough to take it out and redo it with a paper gasket.  The radiator is still off so it wouldn't be that big of a deal.  Another question I have is should you put the gasket sealer on just one side of the gasket or both sides?  

[MarcDeSoto]

I watched the Eric the car guy video on how to replace a water pump on a 2002 Chevy Cavallier.  He said there is no need to put gasket sealer on the block or the gasket facing the block because that just makes it harder to replace the water pump next time.  And he only put enough gasket sealer on the water pump to hold the gasket in place to screw the bolts in.  He said the gasket is all you need to install the water pump.  I don't know if this would true for our 40s cars or not.  The video I referenced follows.  The part that most interested me starts a 20 mins. in.  And there is a part 2 also.  

 

 

[andyd]

Well, I suppose if its possible to install a 2002 Chev cavalier water pump on a side valve mopar then why not but if I was installing a mopar 6 water pump on a mopar 6 then I would do as I have mentioned, ie, gasket, non hardening goo and definately some sort of gasket stuff on the bolt threads......but your car & your choice............andyd 

[Dodgeb4ya]

Good old Eric the Car Guy.

[MarcDeSoto]

59 minutes ago, andyd said:

Well, I suppose if its possible to install a 2002 Chev cavalier water pump on a side valve mopar then why not but if I was installing a mopar 6 water pump on a mopar 6 then I would do as I have mentioned, ie, gasket, non hardening goo and definately some sort of gasket stuff on the bolt threads......but your car & your choice............andyd 

So do you mean gasket sealer just on one side of the gasket or both sides.  And if it's just one side, would it be the water pump side?

 

[chris 48 P15]

 put gasket glue {indian head, high tack} on water pump side only 

if it is still apart maybe redo before you put it together and find problem 

as far as bolts go i don't know haven't done my water pump yet maybe they need sealer on threads

[Sam Buchanan]

9 hours ago, MarcDeSoto said:

I am wondering now if it is bad enough to take it out and redo it with a paper gasket.  The radiator is still off so it wouldn't be that big of a deal.  Another question I have is should you put the gasket sealer on just one side of the gasket or both sides?  

 

Waaay too much thinking going on here. The correct gasket is paper...why would you use cork?? The cork will extrude as the bolts are torqued properly and will further extrude with time. Cork is used when fasteners are used with low torque values (valve covers, oil pans, etc).

 

Clean both surfaces

Apply very light coat of sealer to one side (either) if needed to hold paper gasket in place during installation

Apply sealer to bolt threads

Torque

Done.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Sam Buchanan

[Dodgeb4ya]

Did you remove the WP back cover plate and use some gasket sealer on the gasket?

Make note of those cover bolts...one has a thinner hex head and uses a copper washer.

[kencombs]

I only use that tacky gasket stuff if installing in a really difficult spot or lots of bolt holes to line up, like an oil pan.  WP doesn't fit any of those and that stuff is why old gaskets are so hard to properly clean.   It's not really necessary for sealing if the surfaces and clean and flat.

 

 

 

That said, I do use the black silicone stuff a lot.  But not a bead like the instructions say, that's way to much for a flat machined surface.  I use vinyl gloves to apply a v e r y thin  coat with my fingers.  Thin enough that almost none is visible when tightened.  

 

 

It can even be used on the bolt threads which you must use something on.

 

[MarcDeSoto]

5 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Did you remove the WP back cover plate and use some gasket sealer on the gasket?

Make note of those cover bolts...one has a thinner hex head and uses a copper washer.

?Are you supposed to remove the back plate of the water pump?  I never knew that and I haven't seen any instructions that say that.  I'm using a new water pump, so I would assume that they put the back plate on correctly.  The reason I used the rubberized cork gasket material is that it said it worked well in a water environment.  But after hearing some of your suggestions, I have decided to rip it out and start over.  

[Jerry Roberts]

"  ?Are you supposed to remove the back plate of the water pump? "   Yes . Do as Dodgeb4ya said . I have always done this on my water pumps . 

[DJ194950]

Is the back plate also brand new and perfect condition? No rust , lower areas , etc.?

 

Some pumps I have received had the wrong backing plate hole(s) which fit  other applications and my used ones where rough condition.

So I took the old backing plates  and sanded them to clean bare metal  (both sides) and primed them with epoxy primer and then used [polyester bondo to make them flat like new.

 

I always use a Non hardening sealer like Permantex airplane gasket sealer on Both sides of a med. to heavy paper gasket I made. No problems with sealer removal at a later date.

 

The mounting bolts also get sealed on the threads with Permantex sealer before bolting pump on.

 

I once tried Hi -temp silicone sealer for the pump gasket and bolts--- what a mistake--- leaked water everywhere!

 

DJ

[Dodgeb4ya]

It might not leak...

Or it might.

Over the years I have had a few leak a small amount using no sealer...

This on more modern stuff.

Better safe than sorry.

I always take the back covers off and use sealant...Permatex # 2 my go to.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Dodgeb4ya
Spell check

[MarcDeSoto]

Yes, the back of my new water pump looks new.  I never knew installing a water pump was so complicated!  

[Dodgeb4ya]

Ot's not too complicated of a job...just need to cover your butt on all fronts to be sure of a successful leak free WP job.

Maybe Keith could do a video on R&R'ing a water pump on the flathead.

[MarcDeSoto]

I just removed my WP and looked at the back.  Unlike my old WP which had small hex head bolts on the back, the new one has four Allen bolts!  It looks like it has a solid gasket in there that is firmly attached, so I'm a bit leary of taking it apart.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Leave it alone then.

[LeRoy]

I use paper gaskets and put the thinnest layer I can of #2 on both sides. Yes the #2 is a pia when you get ready to do it again but I've had really good luck with this approach. 

Edited December 28, 2022 by LeRoy

[Loren]

There is a Permatex product called "Right Stuff" which works very well in most places. Its black and kind of a dry consistency.

Blue silicone seal has gone a little obsolete and I rarely use that stuff anymore.

The orange high temp stuff ( we used to call it GMS for General Motors Sealant ) is much the same, obsolete.

In the good ole days guys would put Blue silicone seal on everything! I can't tell you how many valve cover gaskets I've changed because they leaked with the blue stuff all over them. ( cork gaskets squeeze out with the slippery silicone. There is one place I use it. When you need something to slip into place without bunching up the gasket )

On bolts and studs which get exposed to the coolant, I use the lowest strength Loc-tite I have. Clean the I.D. threads and the O.D. threads throughly then apply ( run a tap and die over the threads ). Loc-tite seals the threads and prevents corrosion, most gasket sealers don't do as good a job.

In off road racing we had an axle nut that was exposed to dust. They rusted to the point where I was cutting them off to avoid ruining the axle threads in just two races! When you seal the threads with Loc-tite, they come off easily because the only thing that held them was the torque and the Loc-tite, not rust.

On studs going into the water jacket, don't run them in up to the end of the threads. Figure out the depth of the thread and only run them in that far. The threads rust inside the water jacket and prevent removal, that's why they break. Never use hard bolts or studs in a water jacket. They corrode faster than grade 5 bolts, way faster. You could replace the water pump bolts with stainless steel but remember they are not as strong and they tend to stretch. So unless you plan on re-torquing them regularly stay with the grade 5. Check the depth of the threads and use bolts that only go in that far ( or add washers ).

[Sam Buchanan]

9 hours ago, MarcDeSoto said:

Yes, the back of my new water pump looks new.  I never knew installing a water pump was so complicated!  

 

It's not complicated......unless you create a thread that is two pages long for a job that takes thirty minutes on a slow day.

 

Ahhhh......the joy of killing time on the internet!  ?

[kencombs]

3 hours ago, Loren said:

There is a Permatex product called "Right Stuff" which works very well in most places. Its black and kind of a dry consistency.

 

That's the stuff I use and referenced earlier.  Easy to find, just go to the store, locate the gasket 'stuff' shelf and find the highest price tag.  That's the right stuff!  Seriously it is the right stuff.

 

[MarcDeSoto]

Boy this job gets harder and harder.  For my sealer, I'm using Permatex Water Pump gasket maker.  Is that different from a gasket sealer?  I went to the auto store and they didn't have any paper gasket, so I bought a new to me product called rubberized gasket material made for water pumps by Fel-Pro.  I was reluctant to buy it, since no one recommended it, but I think Fel-Pro probably knows what it's doing, so I bought it.  It's much thicker and stiffer than paper gasket.  

Edited December 28, 2022 by MarcDeSoto

[junkers72]

That looks like the same material my replacement gasket was made of . Stripes and all . If it’s the same material it worked for me .

[MarcDeSoto]

I know you guys are really enjoying this thread by now and I've got even more problems now!  I got everything mounted and the radiator back in.  Filled it with water and started getting more leaks.  I tightened all the hoses, but a leak kept coming out of the water pump by-pass elbow.  It was coming out where the two bolts that fasten the by-pass elbow go into the water pump.  I tightened the right side until it was tight, but when I tried to tighten the left side, the bolt just kept on turning.  So I took the heater hose off and removed the by-pass elbow.  I found that a piece of steel where the threads are had broken off, which prevented the bolt from tightening down.  I bought it three months ago, so I'm not sure if I'll be able to get a replacement pump.  

[Dodgeb4ya]

Oh my!