Can a coil and a condenser be tested.

[48ply1stcar]

I really don't know. Lately my car has started to sputter and die around a mile of driving.  I just put in a used condenser after getting feedback from a couple of Facebook sites.  I've had the car 54 years maybe I should just keeping throwing parts on it like I've done in the past.

[desoto1939]

Yes condensors do go bad. When was the last time that you did a real tuneup with points, condensor, rotor and cap and also new plugs and wires.

 

Yes things do wear out over the years.  Does the car start ok and idle ok but after it gets hot then you start to get the supputer?  You can get a generic 6 volt coil at NAPA for around $25.00.  remmebr wicth wire is the positive and the negative.  The positive wire on the coil will connect at the breaker plate connection that sticks out from the inside of the dizzy and the negative will come from another point in the car maybe from the ignition switch.

 

Alsoconsider getting a NOS breaker plate assembly since it will have everything as one complete unit and it is then basically a screw it into the dizzy and adjust the point gap.  I like to have at least two on hand so you have the small internal wires

[Sniper]

Yes, a coil and condenser can be tested, to answer the question asked.  Condensers can dry out sitting on the shelf, so who knows how long an NOS one will last. 

 

The make a tester for testing the condenser, but if you have an analog voltmeter you can use that, 

 

[desoto1939]

I have a condenser and coil tester.  Rich Hartung Desoto1939@aol.com

I got this off of ebay for around $25.oo

 

[Sniper]

Wow, for some reason Firefox barfed on me and my answer got truncated, lol.

 

You can use a multimeter to test either, analog for the condenser.  Problem with any tester, though, is that none of them really can fully test the parts in question.  They do not replicate the heat and vibration part of it.  I have had coils fail when hot, but run fine when cold.  Hot as in it's been running for an hour plus before failure. 

[desoto1939]

37 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Wow, for some reason Firefox barfed on me and my answer got truncated, lol.

 

You can use a multimeter to test either, analog for the condenser.  Problem with any tester, though, is that none of them really can fully test the parts in question.  They do not replicate the heat and vibration part of it.  I have had coils fail when hot, but run fine when cold.  Hot as in it's been running for an hour plus before failure. 

Yes most coils that fail, fail when they get hot. So what is happening is that one of the two inner windings of the wire are getting hot and if there is a slight break in the wire the wire s then expand and they then pull apart and then the continuity for the coil to provide the appropriate amt of amperage is reduced and then you get sputtering. When the coil cools off the wires that had split come back together and the car will start and run again until they heat up again.

 

Also some people have found that when a car get hot the engine shuts down.  At one time the lower radiator hoses on alot of cars had an inner spring to keep the hose open. When people replaced these lower hoses they forgot to reinstall the spring back into the new lower hose.  The spring kept the hose from collapsing and stopping the water from flowing so the engine hot and then shuts down. So you sit for awhile on the edge of the road, the engine cools off then you start the car and drive until it gets hot again and it shuts off becasue the hoe collapsed.

 

Same similar  problem but opposite reason why the engine malfunctions. One because the wires expand the other because the hose collapses.

 

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[Sniper]

5 minutes ago, desoto1939 said:

Also some people have found that when a car get hot the engine shuts down.  At one time the lower radiator hoses on alot of cars had an inner spring to keep the hose open. When people replaced these lower hoses they forgot to reinstall the spring back into the new lower hose.  The spring kept the hose from collapsing and stopping the water from flowing so the engine hot and then shuts down. So you sit for awhile on the edge of the road, the engine cools off then you start the car and drive until it gets hot again and it shuts off because the hoe collapsed.

 

 

That is not why the spring is in there.  It's in there because the factory used a vacuum fill system and the spring kept the hose open to allow the cooling system to fill properly.  I covered this in my radiator install thread.  If your hose is collapsing on you the issue is not lack of spring, it is a flow restriction in your cooling system, probably a partially clogged radiator.  There is a picture in that thread that shows exactly what happens to a lower hose without a spring if you use the vacuum fill method. 

[DJ194950]

Sniper-

 

IN pressurized cooling systems only??

 

DJ

 

[Sniper]

Not sure about unpressurized setups, since it is not a sealed system I thin it might be possible, but those hoses are very short so maybe not.  Be interesting to put my vacuum setup on one of those and see.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Put the spring in the lower hose...or get one with it already installed.

Millions of lower replacement hoses came with the spring in them for a reason.

It's a good thing.

[Sniper]

8 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Millions of lower replacement hoses came with the spring in them for a reason.

 

And they don't come with it any more for a reason.

 

I used to have a coworker that, when confronted with something he did not understand, would say "I am just a pig watching the machinery".  I asked him what he meant by that, to which he replied "I have no idea what's going on, but it sure looks pretty".

 

I prefer to know what's going on.

 

 

 

 

[48ply1stcar]

I just went back in my attachments and realized that It's been six years since that tune-up so I ordered a condenser and coil.  

Thanks for your comments and reminders. I removed the distributor yesterday and installed the prior condenser.  After I had a 230 block rebuilt I installed all new electric parts. The car starts like a champ always has, it just drives me crazy when the car or anything mechanical just stops working when it was fine a hour earlier. So I'll install a new coil today and I'm pretty sure that's my issue. 

[Los_Control]

Just from my past experience with bad condensers, for me it was they either work or not.  There was no drive for a hour then quit til cooled down.

 

Just now, 48ply1stcar said:

I'll install a new coil today and I'm pretty sure that's my issue. 

Sounds like a good possibility to me .... good call.

 

Just thinking if your condenser is working now, keep it in the glove box for a spare. Install the new one, just know you have a good spare in case it causes trouble.

 

I have had bad luck buying new condensers in the past. Bad out of the box, replace with another new one from Napa and starts one time & fails. 3rd one was from a old used engine in the shed & worked fine.

While others have not had this problem ..... If you have a known good condenser, keep it around for a spare.

[Dodgeb4ya]

4 hours ago, Sniper said:

 

And they don't come with it any more for a reason.

 

I used to have a coworker that, when confronted with something he did not understand, would say "I am just a pig watching the machinery".  I asked him what he meant by that, to which he replied "I have no idea what's going on, but it sure looks pretty".

 

I prefer to know what's going on.

 

 

 

 

You can get them with the spring for  required applications. The spiral spring is needed on high performance/ high volume cooling systems.

Now days many don't have the springs in the lower quality product lines...offshore low quality.

Another reason to cut product costs.

I would rather be more safe than stupid repairing cars and equipment.

 

[Sniper]

57 minutes ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

The spiral spring is needed on high performance/ high volume cooling systems.

 

Which we don't have.  But let us assume you are correct in this statement, only anecdotal evidence there.  All this shows is that the engineers that designed the cooling system came up with a sub optimal setup.  I will reiterate, if you are indeed sucking the hose shut you have an upstream flow restriction.

 

59 minutes ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Now days many don't have the springs in the lower quality product lines...offshore low quality.

 Interesting that my made in the USA hoses have no spring.  One could argue the flip side that today's materials are better negating the need, if indeed there ever was a need beyond the factory fill setup.

 

1 hour ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

I would rather be more safe than stupid repairing cars and equipment.

 

See the first quote.  What you are doing is called belt and suspenders.  Either will hold your pants up, both are OCD overkill.  Or as I tell my kids, you are into wants not needs.  You want the mental security of both, you don't need it though.

 

In the end it's your choice.  For me I like to know why things are actually done, not anecdotal suppositions. 

[Dodgeb4ya]

Argue on and on..

I don't want to.

You win.

[desoto1939]

To Dodgeb4a  and Sniper.  When i worked in a gas station I saw the ppint regarding the spring inthe hoses.  I am not saying that it can hyappen or not happen in our MoPar vintage cars/trucks.

 

I was just pointing out a scenerio that has happened and yes those hoses did come with factory springs and again I have not seen any in many years.  sothe point that i was trying tomake is that yes an condenser can quit at any time also a coil and the coil will stop working if one of the internal wires breaks. So the point with the hose is to demonstate that if the support or base for a hose is compromised then the hose collapses and causes an issue.

 

So the point is at anytime an issue can happen at any time.

 

I am 71 years old and have seen some of the issues that I am discussing.

 

Here is a lisiting on ebay for 61-81 cars that used the inner support spring

 

Lower Radiator Coolant Hose Inner Support Spring 17" Long

1961-1987 Skylark GS Regal GN / 1964-1988 Cutlass 442 /
1967-1988 Firebird Trans Am / 1963-1981 GTO LeMans

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by desoto1939

[Los_Control]

While I really have no dog in this fight.

I do remember the days they actually had springs in the hoses.

Today I am escorted into the back room and have access to try & find the curves & corners I need to pick out the proper shaped hose I need.

 

None of these modern hoses have a wire spring in them like we did in the old days.

 

I'm talking a 30' wall with nothing but radiator hoses hanging on it.  .... I can pick my choice for the shape I want .... None of them on the 30' wall has metal springs inside of the pre formed hoses.  ...... The spring in the hose went away years ago.

[48ply1stcar]

I haven't read every word of every comment, I did replaced the coil yesterday, (Ya know the coil that is in the electrical system.)

So on Tuesday a removed the distributor and installed the condenser. The engine started like a charm, but then I've never had any starting problems. I also adjusted the float because the carb was leaking gas and I thought the fuel was to high in the float bowl. After installing the Coil, I thought I should check the timing well the dwell was way off and well and the timing and the fuel was pouring out of the carb.  I haven't talked myself into going back to the car.

I checked whatever that valve is called that lets in the gas and blew into it backwards and the air didn't pass though.

[48ply1stcar]

This morning I just started over.  Removed the distributor, reset the points, reinstalled distributor. removed the top of the carburetor checked the float height, and needle valve. The timing is about 4 degrees BTDC. I guess I could play with some more but I'm leaving set like this and take for a ride later.

I tried to insert video, dwell 35, 600 rpm,  started right up.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by 48ply1stcar
tried to add movie

[48ply1stcar]

deleted

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by 48ply1stcar

[48ply1stcar]

deleted