R10 Pawl Engagement Operation

[grea235]

I've been wanting an overdrive for my 52 Concord for awhile.  Finally got one.  No kickdown switch or relay or lockout cable.

 

The governor needs a new cap because the sliding plate is rusted in half and unfortunately the 6V solenoid is froze up.  I would have to change it anyway because I'm running 12v. I was hoping it would be good and I could sell it to defray the cost of a 12v one.

 

It has also has welded gear selector lever which I assume it in an earlier year car.  When I pull mine out, I'll swap the lever out.  The plug in the front is being held in because the plug isn't set in correctly.

 

I don't see much wrong from looking inside the fill\drain plugs and lever case.  I know that isn't not a complete analysis but I really don't want to split it apart if I don't have to.  It had fluid in both front and back, a little brown, but at least no water. 

 

I gave $350 for it which I didn't think was too bad given their availability in WA and it was local so no shipping.  I've read up on the electrical operation with the governer, solenoid, kickdown and relay operation and I think I can get it operational the way it's suppose to be.  It will be a little pricey, but I it will be worth it.

 

The 3 speed part shifts fine, but I have a question about the pawl operation.  In neutral, the input and output shafts spin fine.  When I put it in 2nd or 3rd, it works fine as in I can turn the input shaft and the output turns.  With it in 2nd or 3rd, I can manually engage the pawl with my super sketchy solenoid shaft thingy.  The pawl locks in ok, 3/4 inch or so, but it then locks the input shaft to the output shaft and neither spin.

 

Is that normal?  I've seen some posts eluding to that and I've got the manual but it doesn't really mention it.  I would just like to verify that because it would be painful to get it and and find out something is wrong.  Does the input shaft need to be spinning for the rear part to engage and work the overdrive?  If that's the case, is there a way to bench test that?

 

Any info would help and be appreciated!

 

[Loren]

You scored my friend!

On eBay there is a guy with lots of throttle switches which will work (non-stock but the same type) for $6.25 (I bought 10) They were made for the government and had International Truck P/Ns.

For the relay you can use a Bosch Square type that go for very little ($5.00 or less). The 12 volt version is very common as the alarm and stereo guys use tons of them. I found a German made 6 volt version on Amazon.com for I think $8.00. PM me for the pin numbers to the stock wiring.

As for the Lock Out Cable I would go to my speedo guy and have one made for less than the ones that say "Overdrive" on the handle or www.vanpeltsales.com for a reproduction. Van Pelt sells the solenoid and the governor if you can't find a better price on eBay.

Also, take the speedo gear out of your old transmission and put it in your new Overdrive, they fit. Then your speedo will read correctly.

If you have a short wheelbase Plymouth you will have to shorten the drive shaft and make an extension rod for your e-brake (absolutely necessary to have a working e-brake on an Overdrive car). However, if your old gearbox is the long version (same length as the Overdrive) then don't worry it just bolts in.

You will really appreciate the Overdrive in a Plymouth! 

[grea235]

Thank you very much for the info and leads, I sincerely appreciate it.    I have the short wheel base, so I will be seeing my driveshaft shop again.  I just had a u-joint one built, so I have the original and the new to work with.  I saw posts about the speedo gear and will do that and the brake extension, that part should be easy peasy.

[DJ194950]

The BW OD ( Letter)-10  R-10 for Mopars-  solenoids for 12 volt are the same for Almost all brands models of this OD trans.  Probably there are  10 -12 brands all used the same 12 volt solenoids and Used to reasonable on EBay.  Used to be!!!.

 

If I remember right they are almost all where the plunger rod when retracted is 1" out (base to rod end) from the mount base. There were a Few exceptions but very few.

 

New but not cheap !! were available here but, not sure now as the owner has passed away but was still open by family recently.

 

https://fifthaveinternetgarage.com/overdrive_parts.php

 

DJ

[dpollo]

The shift levers on your trans suggest it was used in a '40.  It is the 52-56 R 10

 

A field test of a swap meet overdrive unit is to put the overdrive lever  as it is in the picture, put the main box in high gear,

hold the input shaft  with one hand and rotate the brake drum. (output shaft)  It will freewheel anti clockwise but the input shaft will turn with it the other way.

This indicates the roller clutch is working which is a fair indication the planetary are not jammed up.

[grea235]

That's what I thought about the shift levers.

 

I will do that test, thank you!

[grea235]

Unfortunately, there's no free wheel to it at all, except in neutral, so it looks like I'll neec to split it apart.  First though, I'm going to see if a boroscope in the fill plug will reveak anything.

 

Thanks for the help!

[grea235]

It took me a bit to get it apart, reading is fundemental. One of the cage gears was stuck, so I gingerly got it unstuck.  I verified that the pawl and squirrel cage, I mean sun gear, are working properly.   I do need to replace the clutch, low\first and second gears because the rust ate into them just a little too much and for the price and availablity, it's cheaper to replace them now and not after I get it in.  The front end gears look really good.

 

I have regular kickdown switch ordered and a used studebaker governer coming in.  Hopefully I can get the governer I have working with a studebaker cap.  I could have McGyver'd something for the kickdown switch but for the price of a regular switch it wasn't worth it.

 

All my parts are coming in so I am on the overdrive path.

 

Thank you for all your help.  Everyone is happy here including my Dolph Lawgrens.

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by grea235

[grea235]

My overdrive is all back together.  I appreciate all the posts in the forum.  They were a big help.  Put in a few new gears in the front and new rear bearing and seal and gaskets.   I was able to get a 12v solenoid from Van Pelts right when he got a bunch in.

 

Filled it with fluid and no leaks.  I can run through the gears and the pawl is working correctly.   I'm waiting till after a car show in August before I put it in.

 

I'm working out the wiring diagram for it.  I want an indicator light to tell me when the solenoid is getting power, so I am going to put in an EJECT light that I 'liberated' from benchstock when I worked on F-4 Phantoms along time ago.  I'll put on a bracket by the overdrive cable.

 

 

 

 

[greg g]

Go to the downloads section of this site.  The borg warner manual and users guide is in pdf file there.  I believe it contains the stock schematic including the kick down switch. There is also a simplified  schematic which bypasses the kick down and allows for user engagement disengagement through a fused switch that energizes the od relay powered from the acc terminal of the ignition switch.

[grea235]

Thanks, I appreciate the info.  I've seen them, downloaded and reviewed them.  My plan is to go with the wiring in my service manual for now.  My only concern with putting the kickdown switch on the throttle linkage is the reality of the operation.  I'm running dual carbs,  headers and a rebuilt motor.  It has quite a punch when I stab the throttle, so to 'kick it down' to actuate the switch may be interesting.  I don't have any hills so I will infrequently need to kick it down.  We'll see though.  The war plan is only good until the first engagement.  I want to initially run it locked out to ops check the normal mode, then add in the od wiring and od mode.  I can't wait to get it in there.