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what model, type and year is this Dodge?


DenW
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Good day,
I bought an Oldtimer Dodge.
was available as a 1953 Dodge Kingsman D49-2.
But something doesn't seem to add up.
However, have trouble identifying him.
Had found some things but then the info just doesn't quite match.
what I found was e.g.:

https://www.t137.com/registry/help/otherengines/otherengines.php

https://www.allpar.com/threads/1928-1957-chrysler-dodge-plymouth-fargo-and-desoto-car-truck-and-military-vehicle-model-data-guide.237290/

some info about the car:
chassis number: 13743997 (or I3743997?)
Engine Number: DP25 352768
Type: D 49-2

The car was found/bought in Belgium (I am from the Netherlands myself)

all the info I find, however, the Chassis numbers or engine numbers do not match.

How do I find out what type this is now and where can I find more information about the car and where it was built, etc.
This so that I can better look for parts and information about the car that can help me with the restoration of this beautiful car.
Photos I find never quite match.
Greeting

Daniel

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278647257_5300936536633115_1928590157440784041_n.jpg

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That is a 1954 Dodge.  It's either a Royal, Coronet, or Meadowbrook.  All Royals had a V-8 as it was the new top of the line model.  The Coronet and Meadowbrook had a flathead six or could have the V-8 as an upgrade.  

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thanks for the responses.
based on partial logo on the side, the chrome on the side, lamps and a few more things I would indeed also think of the Kingsway. Grill, bumper and various other things are different and look more like the meadowbrook
But I see countless different versions of each model. makes it difficult.

Is it possible to find out the exact right model based on frame number?
Seems fairly important to me for finding parts, I need things like right front door, inner panel door, chrome for right side and more.
But then I have to know the exact right model for which I have to search.

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It's an export model made overseas, Australia if I read the history correct for your model.  So US based information like you inked is likely not helpful.

 

It's actually a Plymouth body fancied up with Dodge trim.  D49 is correct for the 54-57 production.  The engine number should have either a D or a P, but not both, in the US.  What it likely was is a Plymouth engine (the P) that was stamped D when it was put in this rebadged Dodge.  P25 was correct for the same era Plymouth that was assembled in Australia at the time. 

 

We have a number of Oz members, maybe one can clarify this for us.

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Sniper has the right idea but wrong country........being LHD it was never made by Mopar here in Australia.......I would suggest that its a either a US export model Dodge made & assembled in the USA or its a Canadian Dodge which also used the plymouth body shell with Dodge trim & moldings like we had here in Australia but the LHD definately rules it out of being made here in Oz, as far as I know Oz Mopar did not make a LHD car at any time..........Thomas McPhersons book, The Dodge Story on page 170 identifies this car as either a 1954 Canadian Dodge in the Crusader Series, Royal Series or Mayfair Series........all of which used the Plymouth body shell,frame, & interior with Dodge exterior chrome.......the book doesn't list the series numbers for these Canadian Dodges tho' the USA Dodges were D-50/51/52 & 53...........my Oz 2 cents worth..........andyd   

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is this car also build in Europe?

Becouse i'm in Europe (Netherlands) and car was registerd in Belgium?

or was not build in Europe and should it be build in USA/Canada/Australia?

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got to love the Dagmars...  cannot help with the numbers.....likely is an export model and a Canadian model....what is listed on the firewall tag?

 

The rear lights are for sure 1954 units....good luck with the beast, these models have a tendency to grow on you....

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

what is listed on the firewall tag

what do you mean with firewall tag?

the picture below?

there is also a plate with chassis number in the door frame on the right

IMG_20220507_163458_resized_20220510_122039257.jpg

Edited by DenW
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Definitely a 1954 Dodge but the serial number does not match anything in my Canadian parts manual that also contains the serial numbers of all cars built in Canada. Also, I have never seen a firewall tag like that. My guess is it was specifically built either in Canada or the US for the export market so different tag and numbers. If US built it will have the shorter 23” engine and if built in Canada, it will have the longer 25” engine. 

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That firewall plate also gives a nod to its source.......and also the edge of the plate below it........they are in FRENCH......no USA or Australian tag or plate would ever have been in any language other than English........that car was built in CANADA.......my Oz 3 cents worth(I'm more certain of this now so I increased my monetary wager).........lol.........andyd  

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Know a lot less than a fair chunk of you guys but would hazard an educated guess here...my '38 Dodge was built in the US. This is confirmed by the 1938 Shop Manual version that covers the Export models that has the chassis numbers listed. There are probably Export versions of the Shop Manuals that correspond to this vehicle that would contain said chassis numbers. Agree with Andy that it is an Export model but not sure whether the US or Canadian version. Those engine and chassis numbers will tell the story in an Export Shop Manual, as well as the block length - 23" for US, 25" for Canada. Look for the right manual, they are invaluable.

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According to allpar.com Chrysler assembled Chryslers and Plymouths in Antwerp Belgium from 1926 to 1958.  It seems likely that this car that was bought in Belgium was made there. 

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Busy..........interesting that Belgium connection..............good to learn something new every day......looks like I've lost my 3 Oz cents...........lol...........andyd

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2 hours ago, busycoupe said:

According to allpar.com Chrysler assembled Chryslers and Plymouths in Antwerp Belgium from 1926 to 1958.  It seems likely that this car that was bought in Belgium was made there. 


Very interesting. I had no idea. 

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Which would explain the French on the tags as French is one of Belgium's three recognized languages.  Most exports seem to have 25 inch long heads so that would be helpful to know.  I think that is a 53 plymouth body though.  Some subtle changes were made on US cars between 53 and 54 but don't think the exports got them.  That body style was used in Austrailia and sold as a 56.  I believe Chryslet sent the bodystamping tools down under in 55.  And after stamping out the basic sheet metal for two years they were pretty worn out.  Doubt that Antwerp was a full manufacturing  facility.  More likely it was a "knockdown assembly facility where imported parts became Belgian Dodges.

 

As mentioned the Allpar.com  website has a large section covering exports, knockdowns, over seas production facilities.  You might want to visit there and use exports as the search word.  Chrysler had facilities in Central and South America, Britain, Turkey, South Africa, Australia, and a couple others, where determined by 

Customs taxes and our duties the arrived as full cars, knockdown, or parts to be assembled into cars.

 

Looks like a neat start to a project.  

 

As you are in the Netherlands, one of this Forums members and a partner have a business sourcing cars and parts for European customers. Checkout their website 

RDUSACLASSICS.COM. Marcel is the fellow in Rotterdam,  they would be a good resource for you when you need to get parts.

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Here in Oz that basic 1953 body shell was used till 1956 as Plymouth,Dodge & DeSoto versions, then up till the 1962 Chrysler Royal, albeit from 1957 Chrysler Australia adapted the 55/56 Plymouth front & rear fenders to this body shell, see the attached pic of 57/58, 59/60 & 61/62 Chrysler Royals, these were available as a Wayfarer Ute and a very low production,(about 100) Plainsman 4 Dr Station Wagons, the 57/58 version used almost the exact 55 Plymouth taillight setup then changed for the 59 version & used the DeSoto style of rearend/taillights.........andyd.   

1957ChryslerRoyal.png

1959ChryslerRoyal.jpg

1962ChryslerRoyal.png

1962ChryslerRoyalRear.jpg

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Boy, Walter P et al sure got their money's worth out of those stamping tools.  Didn't realize they got 6 years out of them. Especially with all the longer, wider, lower styling of the period.

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I made the serial number of the engine itself a bit more visible and took a picture of it.
below again all pictures of ID numbers.IMG_20220514_161343_resized_20220515_120556693.jpg.987a8df3a8d31be93ca0614691785a14.jpgIMG_20220514_161341_resized_20220515_120556472.jpg.c8cc7e014ad7a6beec3365fccc501e23.jpgIMG_20220514_161256_resized_20220515_120556244.jpg.5fa8354f841153e607bf3eb8e312b505.jpgIMG_20220514_160909_resized_20220515_120555889.jpg.71d6493c207029ba01e9bb018af7831c.jpgIMG_20220514_155817_resized_20220515_120556918.jpg.dced2aeec7db61579b7e94930f9634a8.jpg

 

Looks like I found that at https://www.allpar.com/threads/1928-1957-chrysler-dodge-plymouth-fargo-and-desoto-car-truck-and-military-vehicle-model-data- guide.237290/

 

The DP25 on motor numer in combination with the chassis number points to a Playmouth 6 from 1954 US build

list.JPG.35b5ba9700de80fc6e9b77e905d81702.JPG

 

But on the plate it says "constructeur Dodge"
furthermore, a D has been placed before the engine number.
The car also has the Dodge decorations.
It all remains very confusing.

I have to look for some parts such as some crome, logos, a right front door, inner panel windows etc. etc. but without knowing the exact type / model it is difficult to find the right parts.

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As per the listed above, the   D denote the application of Dodge badging on the Plymouth P25 chassis which is for the export market if a true Dodge the P would not be on the engine..the Diamond will definitely place this about second half of the production year as this denotes the install of the 230 cubic inch engine as 1954 was a transition year for Plymouth and the only year that the 218 and 230 were installed, the diamond thus defines which flathead, the 230.  1953 was 218 flathead six,  1954 218 start of model 230 end of model and 1955 only the 230 flathead in Plymouth.  Your car is a Plymouth in Dodge badging.  The tags denote also you have the stock 230 that came with the car at time of production.  Not confusing...all the data you have listed above and the description I just agave including the diamond tell you all you need to know.  

 

PS...the numbering denotes of the four assembly plants for Plymouth that yours was built in Detroit

Edited by Plymouthy Adams
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On 5/15/2022 at 2:50 PM, Plymouthy Adams said:

As per the listed above, the   D denote the application of Dodge badging on the Plymouth P25 chassis which is for the export market if a true Dodge the P would not be on the engine..the Diamond will definitely place this about second half of the production year as this denotes the install of the 230 cubic inch engine as 1954 was a transition year for Plymouth and the only year that the 218 and 230 were installed, the diamond thus defines which flathead, the 230.  1953 was 218 flathead six,  1954 218 start of model 230 end of model and 1955 only the 230 flathead in Plymouth.  Your car is a Plymouth in Dodge badging.  The tags denote also you have the stock 230 that came with the car at time of production.  Not confusing...all the data you have listed above and the description I just agave including the diamond tell you all you need to know.  

 

PS...the numbering denotes of the four assembly plants for Plymouth that yours was built in Detroit

thanks for help.
To summarize:

The car would therefore have been built as a Plymouth 6 P25 in detroit in 1954.
Subsequently relabeled from the factory to a Dodge Kingsway.
So that relabeling was done in the factory and not by a later owner, which I understand.
The Factory subsequently struck an extra D for the P25.

the motor is a 230 flathead 6 what i understand?

Then something strange: I just called the Dutch RDW (Dutch car registration service) and they could find the chassis number in a Belgian database and it turned out that he had a license plate there and was deregistered.
What was striking, however, was that the person indicated that the first admission of the car would have been on 15-09-1949, so that is 4 years before 1954.

I am now going to have the RDW carry out a preliminary investigation to establish the identity of the vehicle, and see what comes out of that. costs about 400 euros (including a visit on location)

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If thats a 1949 model Dodge or Plymouth or whatever then I'm the man on the moon........the Dutch records are wrong this is NOT a 1949 model, nope its an Export Model Dodge that was built using the Plymouth body & chassis with export Dodge bits and assembled it seems in Belgium...........at least thats what I would be prepared to accept........that "1949" date is quite possibly when the Dutch records first actually show a Belgium assembled mopar or when the Mopar factory started in Belgium after WW2..........but it ain't no 1949 Mopar, no way, no how..........andyd 

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400 euros for what, a pedigree...why is it that the pedigree is always more important than the actual car and bringing/keeping it in good running order and cosmetics.  Denial to the fact of the very serial numbers you have, the actual production numbers documents and the very history of the DIAMOND stamp on the engine...a symbol never used till mid 54 and never used again after.  Think again on the 49, that is the model number, not the year of manufacture.....odds are the clerk has trouble entering data or deciphering.

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