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Introduction and 1951 Firewall Tag Question


Tim_M

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Hi all,

 

I was referred to the experts on this forum by the Allpar.com community. My name is Tim, and I live just outside Philadelphia. I'm in my 30s, but I specifically love cars from the 40s and 50s. This forum seems to be the best place to ask a question about a 1951 Chrysler I'm looking at.

 

The car is a 1951 Chrysler New Yorker Newport hardtop that's being advertised as an original, unrestored example with 15,482 miles. So, the claim is roughly 218 miles per year for 71 years. Given the number of survivors from an original run of fewer than 6,000, that might make the car unique or close to it in 2022.

 

The door jam serial number of the car is 7189485 (attached image), which is in range for a 1951 Chrysler New Yorker. So far, so good.

 

My confusion stems from the firewall tag just below the cowl (attached image). That has a model code of 46, which seems to code for a 1949 New Yorker, Saratoga, or Town & Country. From all the research I've compiled, there doesn't seem to be any way this tag could be model and year correct without a model code of "52," a 1951 New Yorker. The tag does specify paint code "78," which seems to code correctly for either or both of its body color (Arizona Beige) and roof color (Buckskin Tan). Separately, this tag just seems to be coded for less information than I usually see on Chrysler products from the same era.

 

Also, this tag is painted over. Since I've seen both bare metal firewall tags and painted tags on Chryslers from the period, I'm not certain which way it shipped from the factory. But if the tag isn't supposed to be painted, and it doesn't code for a 1951 New Yorker, then it raises larger questions about why it's there and the story about the mileage/originality.

 

I haven't reached out to inquire about the car yet, and I felt I should rely on guidance from this forum first. Is there any way this 1951 car could have wound up correctly paired with this particular firewall tag from the factory?

 

You can see the car here: https://www.schmitt.com/inventory/1951-chrysler-new-yorker/

A separate dealer appears to have offered the same car years and 1,000 miles ago: HERE

My impression is that the prior dealer took more revealing photos of the car's actual condition.

 

I don't have an engine block serial number for this car yet. Thanks so much for any assistance or guidance you can provide.

 

Best,

Tim

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DOOR JAM.png

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Well, those rivets in the vehicle number tag are not supposed to be there.  They are supped to have empty holes there, no rivets whatsoever.

 

Engine serial number should start with C52-8

 

Every body tag I ever saw was painted body color, fwiw, most of the tags I have seen were later model stuff though. 

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50k seems like a huge amount of money for that car. I'm not too hip to the value of these early mopars but I come across them for way less money than that on a regular basis. Im not a collector/restorer type of car guy so maybe I'm wrong. Looks nice though. 

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1950 was the last year for the old in-line straight eight flathead. This car has a hemi and 1951 was its first year. I believe I am correct but others with more knowledge will likely add their thoughts as well. 

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@allbizz49Yes, the price is high. It's supposed to be an ask of $47K, which is mental for one of these unless the car truly is factory original and actual miles. I think you can pick up a range-topping '51 Chrysler Imperial convertible in good shape for the same money. If this were a typical $25K 1951, I probably wouldn't be too concerned about everything lining up. If this car were to check out as original and unrestored, I could consider $47K, but an older restoration or a reconstructed car doesn't warrant that kind of money.

 

@RobertKB: Indeed, 1951 was the first year for the Hemi and first year for the Hydraguide power steering, an industry first. This car has both. It also has the Fluid-Matic, which, if I'm not mistaken, is a three-pedal clutch PLUS a fluid coupling PLUS a two-speed manual PLUS a two speed electric overdrive. All cool stuff from an evolution-of-the-species standpoint.

 

@Sniper:This is interesting to me, and I'm a bit surprised by it. Honestly, the VIN tag in the door jam seemed to be the one I trusted more. I was under the impression that the "holes only" Chrysler Corp. VIN tag came into play during the 1953-1954 model years. During my research of 1949-1951 Chryslers, they've all had the rivet-tag, including these three (two 1951 Chrysler Imperials in red and light blue, and one 1951 New Yorker in dark blue). Could it be that the "holes-only" fixture method came shortly afterward? I know that literally all Mopars post-1954 from this period have that type of door VIN tag attachment.

IMPERIAL 1.png

imperial2.jpg

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beautiful car. my first classic car was a 1951 windsor. same tranny, and fun to drive. just my opinion, but the price is too high. if you want to drive this car on a regular basis it will take more money and time. good for a collection though. my current chrysler is for driving, not sitting. still takes money to keep it that way. the car is quite beautiful, though.      capt den

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1 hour ago, capt den said:

beautiful car. my first classic car was a 1951 windsor. same tranny, and fun to drive. just my opinion, but the price is too high. if you want to drive this car on a regular basis it will take more money and time. good for a collection though. 

 

Very cool first car. Mine was a 1999 XJ Cherokee, so technically still a branch of the Mopar family. As for the New Yorker in the listing, yes, the current price is way too high.

 

I'd want the car for vintage rally events, so it would need to be more than a pretty display piece. Clearly, that demands an operating budget and, frankly, probably a lot of reconditioning of major systems if the car has been sitting for years. What I can see of the electrical setup in and around the battery doesn't inspire confidence, and it looks even worse in the photos posted through the link to the previous dealer. Engines and transmissions that don't run become problematic, too.

 

So the question comes down to whether the car is a trustworthy original ~15K mile car and a basis on which to build a reliable machine. That's why the "46" (1949 NY'er) on the cowl tag and indications of at least a partial respray leave me guessing. A rebuilt car, older restoration, or a rollback isn't worth even calling to negotiate when the price is this high. Any help making sense of the cowl tag and car condition would be hugely appreciated.

 

Also, am I correct that the Fluid-Matic in this car is the Presto-Matic M6 semi-auto with a fluid coupling rather than the optional torque converter? It appears to have the shift quadrant that indicates the selectable high and low ranges, so I don't think it's just a Fluid Drive coupling with a conventional manual.

 

Best,

Tim

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In the 2020 "Old Cars Collector Car Price Guide" a '51-52 Chrysler New Yorker 2dr HT lists for $18,200 in #2 Condition and $26,000 in #1 condition. Granted some prices  have increased a bit since 2020, but their asking price is almost DOUBLE what the car has historically sold for. As I tell my kids and grandkids - "everything is negotiable".

Good luck!

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40 minutes ago, Bob Riding said:

In the 2020 "Old Cars Collector Car Price Guide" a '51-52 Chrysler New Yorker 2dr HT lists for $18,200 in #2 Condition and $26,000 in #1 condition. Granted some prices  have increased a bit since 2020, but their asking price is almost DOUBLE what the car has historically sold for. As I tell my kids and grandkids - "everything is negotiable".

Good luck!

 

 

Yeah, $40K+ isn't happening. Maybe "that guy" exists, but I suspect it's a non-starter. Markets are softening a bit right now. Three months ago, crazy asks in cars and watches looked like they had no end in sight. I work in the watch industry, which often parallels the market for collector cars. There's been a sobering of opinion just recently. I'll watch this car and see if it sticks around. If it's still there in a month, I'll see what's up and what can be done.

 

Thanks for all the advice.

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