Can't get front brake shoes to go in so drum will fit on 48 DeSoto.

[Crisjr14]

Oh OK thanks 

[DJ194950]

All appears to be normal production tolerances work.

 

DJ

[Crisjr14]

Ok so what im trying to ask is this please on the cam pins and spring (the little plate underneath it )is there a certian way they are to be bent to hold the shoes also I think I read somewhere that those plates have to be facing with the lobes facing outward would that be true please like the picture I just added with the circles and arrows pointing

[Los_Control]

6 pages here .... I'm not reading back ..... Have we checked the obvious?

I had some issues on my truck. Others pointed out that the pins going into the wheel cylinders were the wrong length.

They were longer then the original pins ..... You could install the original pins or cut down the new pins.

 

KK your drums are .020 under, shoes are over ....

Those drums are precious .... turn only if absolutely needed

Shoes are not cheap ..... Having them ground down is not cheap.

 

What does a wheel cylinder cost? ..... take the pin, cut it down so your shoes fit.

What would a farmer do back in the 1940's?  ..... What did you hurt? .... what would be the consequences of shortening the pin?

 

I get it I'm a hack. You have full shoes, you did not damage your drums ..... 10 years from now your shoes may be wearing down, the pins may be too short to push the shoes out ..... Now you need new pins or wheel cylinders to get the pins.

Whats a replacement wheel cylinder cost? .... I have my original stored away. I have extra pins.

 

I love @keithb7video on doing brakes one set at a time, front or rear. Let them wear in, then do the next.

You will not need expensive machine work to get good brakes .... unless you have a different issue.

 

I'm only suggesting a different way to fix this issue ..... throw lots of $$ at it .... or trim the pins to fit.

 

As a old farmer, my garden is doing very well this year 

[Dodgeb4ya]

Make sure the shoe linings are no thicker than 5/32".

That's the factory new Dodge Coronet/Meadowbrook thickness. Have the linings Arc'd  to fit each drum if they do not exactly fit each drum. If you don't arc them and the have gaps at the toe or heel or in the middle...oh well adjust the best you can and drive it, drive it, drive it. Them you will have  re-adjust the cams every 500 miles or so as the pedal drops... As they wear in the pedal drops lower. {the non conforming linings are wearing in to fit the drums 100%.}

This takes miles and miles of driving to get a high hard firm brake pedal.

If the shoes are properly arc'd set the anchor bolt arrows facing to each other at the rear brakes, on the front wheel cylinders arrows face the wheel cylinder. These are the original factory arrow positions with linings fitting the drum surfaces 100%.

Put the properly arc'd shoes on. Install the drums adjust the minor cams as in the book with a slight drag. 

Re-adjust shoes again in 500 miles. Pedal should be high and firm.

If you do not arc poorly fitting shoes do the best you can adjusting them up and letting them wear in.

They will wear in and the pedal will be great high and firm after a couple thousand miles.

That's the way I always did it in the late 60's and 70's till I got older smarter and had all the tooling to do these Lockheed brakes.

You also had the choice of std. and oversize linings back then to help get faster wear in of linings.

These Lockheed brakes always were excellent if set up correctly and using asbestos linings which still ise on my old MoPars. Be careful using some of these new relined shoes off ebay...linings are made of who knows what off shore materials.

 

[Crisjr14]

So I finally got everything back together and the drum on and with my brake shoe adjuster tool it touches on the heels but when it goes around on to the toe on both sides there is a gap can someone tell me which way am I supposed to turn the anchor I know I'm bugging alot but I'm new to all this and just trying to get some help here sorry hopefully you all can understand in the pictures I added the gaps and can you tell me if the writing is correct example c for cam A for anchor toe etc. 

[9 foot box]

   This might help, it should be in downloads.   Rick D.

[keithb7]

Trial and error. Just start turning your anchors and watch how the shoes move. Its easy when you have that tool. Start turning and you'll get it. There is no special steps. Just keep adjusting until you get the shoes concentric.

Edited May 4, 2023 by keithb7

[Crisjr14]

OK so I'm sorta confused on this what is and where is this retaining nut that says to tighten after putting drum on in this picture circled please 

[desoto1939]

On the back of the brake backing plate there will be two big  hex nuts they are used to make the make the minor adjustment to the brake shoes and these nuts are near the wheel cylinders. Turning these nuts will move the toe section of the brake shoe outward and or inward to get the appropriate distance between the lining and the drum.

 

The Heel is done  by loosening the castle nut on the backing plate and then you take a 1/2 opened wrench and turn inthe appropriate direction to move the heel down and out or up and inward. You will also need to use feeler gages to get to the proper distance for the heel and the toe separation distances. This will be listed in your service manual.

 

After fitting the drums to make sure they will go on then take the drum off.  Take your 1/2 inch box wrench and put it on the flat spot of the eccentric end facing towards you. Then you will need a torque wrench set to around 55-75 ft lbs with the proper socket. Put this onto the nut on the back of the backing plate. Hold the eccentric firmly with your open wrench and make sure the pin does not rotate. Then take the torque wrench and tight the nut and hold very tightly the eccentric. Get the castle nut aligned so that you and install the cotter pin in the castle nut if you had them install originally.

 

The first time will take some time to learn the process then it will get quicker as you do each individual brake on the car.

 

Rich Hartung

 

 

[Crisjr14]

Thanl you Rich but I don't see how I can get a feeler gauge in there to check for the right adjustment which would be .006 like it says in picture added and I am using the correct gauge correct as well with picture and the only possible way I see and that is not even letting me is to have the drum half on as like in picture sorry I don't understand but would greatly appreciate any help and advice I can get please 

[Sam Buchanan]

The 0.006" clearance is measured with the brake adjustment tool prior to installing the drum. The Miller tool, which very few of us have, allows a precise measurement of the drum ID compared to the OD of the shoes. Without that tool, we are left with using our simple little tool to insure the shoes are concentric within 0.006" after setting the heel of the shoes to lightly contact the drum. This is a workaround that usually results in satisfactory brake function.

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Sam Buchanan

[Crisjr14]

Thank you Sam now that makes more sense as for the feeler Guage so i do the .006 check after I do the heel is that what your saying and do I still follow these instructions in picture doing the toe adjustment to 

[desoto1939]

Chris you use the feel gage when using the pointer tool and you put this between the tool and the brake lining when the drum is off the spindle. You do this for both the toe and the heel should be approx 6 and 12 forget which point the the measurement is taken refer to your service manual.

 

Rich hartung

[Sam Buchanan]

The reason the heels need to be adjusted so they very lightly contact the drum is so there is a base reference that gets the adjustment tool very close to drum diameter. Without this step you won't know how to set the adjusting tool. Once the heels are set, remove the drum and adjust the toes so they are within 0.006" of the heel. Then reinstall the drum, adjust the heels to barely remove any drag and adjust the toes if necessary to where they almost drag. The locking nuts on the heel adjusters need to to securely tightened, you can remove the drum for this once the brakes are adjusted. Then recheck after putting everything back together.

 

This will get you very close to a satisfactory adjustment, readjust as necessary after putting some miles on the brakes. After doing this a couple of times you can leave the 0.006" gauge in the toolbox....you'll be able to do this by touch.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Sam Buchanan

[Crisjr14]

OK so I'm sorta confused on this what I have been told and shown i believe is to bring the cams all the way in first then take them out until the start to rub drum and do the anchors to set the heels. Then told to do it this way so there actually is no adjuster for the Toes is that correct but trust me I appreciate all of you for the valuable information it's just that can't figure which method to use also how can I find out if my pads are doing this with the drum on please 

[Sniper]

Way too confusing and aggravating to use the factory or similar procedures.

 

Just slot the bolts with a dremel tool, adjust for a slight drag and back off till the drag just disappears.  You might want to cycle between both adjustments till both are setup that way.  Don't forget to pull the drum when done, hold the adjusters with a wrench and torque the lock nuts.

 

[Crisjr14]

Hello I am back with another question for some help so on my rear drums of the 53 one side has arrows that look like they are engraved the other side don't have any so I am asking are the anchor bolts from the front are designed like the rear ones as far as the arrow and lobe position like picture added for reference and are arrows supposed to face each other when staring from scratch putting everything back together and doing the adjustments please and thank you 

[desoto1939]

yes the arrows initially would be setup to point directly at each other. This then identified that the eccentric pins are both in the same orientation of rotation.

 

rotating the pins moves the heel of the shoe either down and out or up an inwards from the drum surface.

 

Sowhen you are done the arrows might not be in the same pointing direction as each other. This is called the major adjustment process. The minor adjustment is just using the upper half moon to move the toe of the shoe outward or inward.

 

Rich Hartung

[Crisjr14]

OK gentlemen want to ask for some more advice please so I on the verge of getting these brakes all back together I bought new seals for the plates on the rear ends brakes but read that might as well check and change out the bearings as well so question is this bearing circled how does it come out is hard or fairly easy there is alot of play in the bearing so was thinking of putting news ones in since I'm at this point or can I get away with it by just repacking with bearing grease also this shim that came out looks like someone might have made it and it shows where it's been rubbing on something as well as with the blue heat marks so does anyone one know what the exact size in thickness it needs or they need to be I have extras from a rearend I bought same year make and model also circled in red in pictures please any help would be greatly appreciated thank you also I apologize upfront for my not so correct punctuation in my posts i.e. !,?,. Etc. Lol

[Merle Coggins]

To pull the axle shaft you need to rig up a puller or use a slide hammer. It is held in by the outer bearing cup pressed into the axle tube. When you reassemble, with grease packed bearings, you’ll need to shim both sides simultaneously to achieve the proper end play/preload for the bearings. You can’t do them one side at a time. The axle shafts press against a floating block in the center of the diff. The brake backing plate presses the bearing cup into the axle tube, thus pushing the axle shaft against the block. If you don’t work with both sides equally you’ll end up with the axles off center. 

[Conn47D24]

Marc, do the new wheel cylinder piston match the pins you're using?

 

If it's a shallow piston Cup you will need the shorter more modern pins.

 

I just have the reverse problem where the short pins in the deep cups were pushing the shoes out far enough change them to the old pins and now I'm in good shape.

 

 

[Crisjr14]

Thank you both but I think I'll take my chances and just clean them real good and repack with grease and hope for the best lol  don't want to cause more issues than I've gotten myself into already 

[Sniper]

5 hours ago, Merle Coggins said:

To pull the axle shaft you need to rig up a puller or use a slide hammer. It is held in by the outer bearing cup pressed into the axle tube. When you reassemble, with grease packed bearings, you’ll need to shim both sides simultaneously to achieve the proper end play/preload for the bearings. You can’t do them one side at a time. The axle shafts press against a floating block in the center of the diff. The brake backing plate presses the bearing cup into the axle tube, thus pushing the axle shaft against the block. If you don’t work with both sides equally you’ll end up with the axles off center. 

 

Not disagreeing with anything you said here, but it's interesting that the later Mopar axles only had an adjuster on one side.  I wonder if there is a difference with the thrust block design that allows for only one side adjustment being needed?