oil pan gasket set options

[harmony]

About maybe 1000 miles ago, I replaced the oil pan gaskets.  The other day I noticed a wet spot on the floor.  It is from the rear half round part.  The set I bought uses thick flat rectangular pieces of cork for that part ( front & Back ). For some weird reason the cork has bunched up and is trying to escape.  What is sticking out looks like a piece of rope 1/8" dia. that was too long for the job so it bunched up and the oil is coming out of the gaps. The front looks fine.  Naturally after I installed the gasket and started the bolts, I had a look to see if everything looked good.  Then after tightening the bolts I had another look.  After a one hour drive I had a look under the car and there were no leaks.

 

I noticed that rock auto has a couple options. 

One set is cork/rubber blend by "Fel-Pro" for $10.69. 

They also carry one for $21.06 but their description isn't all that informative. When I move the curser over the picture that magnifies it, it looks like a blend of rubber and cork.  It's made by Victor Reinz.  It says that they are "Molded rubber-on-carrier".  Then the next line it says they are "Precision molded rubber" Then the next line says they are "cork rubber material".

I'm curious if anybody has had any experience with either of these gasket sets?

 

[Sniper]

Pretty sure the VR description is just marketing babble relevant to nothing in particular and their gaskets in general, depending on which you get.  I believe the specific section that is relevant is the High-Quality Cork-Rubber Material: Ideal for older engines designed for conventional gaskets.  Which is just their way of saying we aren't interested in designing anything better for your engine.

 

As for which one, FP or VR, flip a coin there.  Both are essentially made of the same material and the companies involved are of similar reputation.  Another possibility is Best Gasket, but their prescriptive doesn't exist and looks to be similar, an example of it https://www.ebay.com/itm/151111758446

[harmony]

57 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Pretty sure the VR description is just marketing babble relevant to nothing in particular and their gaskets in general, depending on which you get.  I believe the specific section that is relevant is the High-Quality Cork-Rubber Material: Ideal for older engines designed for conventional gaskets.  Which is just their way of saying we aren't interested in designing anything better for your engine.

 

As for which one, FP or VR, flip a coin there.  Both are essentially made of the same material and the companies involved are of similar reputation.  Another possibility is Best Gasket, but their prescriptive doesn't exist and looks to be similar, an example of it https://www.ebay.com/itm/151111758446

Thanks Sniper.  I think that was my initial though as I read the descriptions.  It sounded like smoke and mirrors.    

[Bryan]

I would look at the surface of the pan in that area to make sure it wasn't uneven and pushing the gasket out. I recently had that happen on the transmission pan of my 92 truck. It would leak a little and I'd tighten it up all the way around, and it would stop leaking. Last time I looked there was a little section of gasket pushed out.  Maybe another issue is overtightening??

[harmony]

7 hours ago, Bryan said:

I would look at the surface of the pan in that area to make sure it wasn't uneven and pushing the gasket out. I recently had that happen on the transmission pan of my 92 truck. It would leak a little and I'd tighten it up all the way around, and it would stop leaking. Last time I looked there was a little section of gasket pushed out.  Maybe another issue is overtightening??

I was quite certain that everything was very clean before reinstalling.  But over tightening might have been the issue.

[harmony]

Would anyone happen to have a set of new gaskets kicking around, that they could take a thickness measurement from for me?  I'm thinking of making my own.  But I'm sure once I remove the old ones, it will be difficult to get the thickness right on due to the compression of the cork. I sort of thought the end pieces were maybe 3/8" thick and the side pieces about 1/8" or less thick.  I might buy a sheet of cork and layer up some pieces using permatex aviation form a gasket adhesive between layers. 

I suppose I could try another gasket set from AB.  The leak may well have been user error.

Even though Rock Auto offer a cork/rubber blend set, their shipping rates are ridiculous. 

 

[Bryan]

59 minutes ago, harmony said:

I was quite certain that everything was very clean before reinstalling.  But over tightening might have been the issue.

Sorry, I didn't mean not clean, I meant maybe the metal surface was bowed.  Maybe put a straight edge across that point and check.

[Sniper]

Thickness on the pieces that go over the hump (no bolt holes) is .210"

Thickness of the pieces that go on the side rails (with bolt holes) is .185"

 

Felpro OS 4250 C set measured, 23" engine.

 

One thing that irritates me, the engines listed on the packaging are all in liters.  Why?

Edited February 17, 2022 by Sniper

[harmony]

2 hours ago, Sniper said:

Thickness on the pieces that go over the hump (no bolt holes) is .210"

Thickness of the pieces that go on the side rails (with bolt holes) is .185"

 

Felpro OS 4250 C set measured, 23" engine.

 

One thing that irritates me, the engines listed on the packaging are all in liters.  Why?

Thanks for the measurements Sniper.  My 251 is a 25 incher so I'd have to be cautious of that. I'm a Canadian and metric  was introduced in the late 60's I think.  It still irritates me to no end.  I have no idea in my head what 14 cm. looks like for example.  Can't teach an old dog new tricks. 

I realized today that I have some stuff that looks and feels like cork/rubber mixture. I have two different thicknesses so I might give it a try. 

[harmony]

6 hours ago, Bryan said:

Sorry, I didn't mean not clean, I meant maybe the metal surface was bowed.  Maybe put a straight edge across that point and check.

Thanks for the heads up Bryan.  I'll definitely have a closer look when I remove the existing gaskets. 

[harmony]

In the gasket sets (other than AB ) there are a couple O-rings.  The installation tips say they are to be used as new front main cap seals. "cut 2 sections of the O-ring to approximately 1.125 inches in length and lay in the cap groove. 

 

That's news to me.  Can someone please elaborate on that for me?  What diameter do you suppose those O-rings are?

Why wouldn't they send one larger O-ring that would be cut using one piece 2.250 inches?????

[Dodgeb4ya]

Instead of them supplying the factory design straight piece of round rubber strip they give you a O-ring hopefully of the correct diameter that you have to cut to length ....stupid..?

[Matt Wilson]

Here's a pic that shows the oil pan gaskets for my engine, which started life as an early 60's 251 out of a Power Wagon, and which I'm coverting to a 265.  For either size engine, it uses the same block, oil pan, etc., so the gaskets would be the same and I think they would be the same for your engine too.

 

The front and rear pieces are made of cork that is between 0.240 - 0.245" thick.  They are both about 0.845 - 0.855" wide and 10-13/16" long when laying flat.

 

The side pieces don't appear to be cork, but rather some type of mostly fibrous yet somewhat rubbery stuff, and they range in thickness from 0.090 - 0.095".

 

These are gaskets made by Best Gasket, which I purchased through Vintage Power Wagons almost 5 years ago.

 

Hopefully this helps.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Matt Wilson
Forgot to add the photo the first time

[harmony]

8 hours ago, Matt Wilson said:

Here's a pic that shows the oil pan gaskets for my engine, which started life as an early 60's 251 out of a Power Wagon, and which I'm coverting to a 265.  For either size engine, it uses the same block, oil pan, etc., so the gaskets would be the same and I think they would be the same for your engine too.

 

The front and rear pieces are made of cork that is between 0.240 - 0.245" thick.  They are both about 0.845 - 0.855" wide and 10-13/16" long when laying flat.

 

The side pieces don't appear to be cork, but rather some type of mostly fibrous yet somewhat rubbery stuff, and they range in thickness from 0.090 - 0.095".

 

These are gaskets made by Best Gasket, which I purchased through Vintage Power Wagons almost 5 years ago.

 

Hopefully this helps.

Yes they look pretty much the same as the set I got from AB

[harmony]

Well curiosity got the best of me and I decided to pull the pan before ordering a gasket set.  To my surprise, what I thought was the rear cork gasket bunching up, was something completely different.

However I don't see any mention of the part in the parts manual and in the service manual there is one sentence that I think is talking about what I'm looking at.

Under the heading of removing the oil pan it says " Remove clutch housing pan to prevent damaging oil pan gaskets on clutch housing pan dust seal" 

I think they are talking about a standard transmission.  However on the front face of the Fluid Drive housing at the top is a thin plate that is held on with 6 bolts ( 2 are 7/16" heads and 4 are 1/2" heads) Attached to the plate is what I think is a U shaped piece of felt.  So I think that plate & felt is what the service manual is calling "clutch housing pan dust

seal.

The felt is held on in 6 places to the thin plate.  I think the thin plate has 6 V shaped perforations in it and the felt is pressed on, cutting through that V and then the V is hammered over.  So I'm thinking maybe when I put the pan on last time that I got careless and the edge of the pan grabbed the felt between the spots where it is fastened to the plate and sort of folded the felt up.  

But I'm pretty thorough when I do something and I think I would have noticed that and even felt a resistance when I tried to push the pan up into place.  So perhaps it was done before I bought the car.

So even thought the pan gaskets don't look disturbed at all, I think it was leaking at the rear anyways.

 

Sooooo, I think I'll remove that plate.  I might have to remove one of the angle support pieces that go from the fluid drive to the side of the block, to get the pate off.  I have some 1/2" felt that I've had kicking around for over 45 years.  So I'll replace the felt and put the pan back on and then slide the plate/felt into place after the pan is on.

 

The pan gaskets look to be in great shape, so I think I'll either just coat them with permatex aviation form-a-gasket and hope for the best. Or maybe press a thin piece of gasket material on top of the cork that form the U at each end.  (thermostat gasket thickness). If I use the form-a-gasket to hold it in place on top of the thick cork over night.  Then when I put the pan back on, since the cork is pretty thick, it might compress that small amount.  I'll have to think about those two choices. 

[kencombs]

So the oil leak is at the rear pan gasket area?  But the gasket is not damaged?  That would be a perfect time and place  for modern 'gasket maker', not as a gasket maker per se, but as an add-on to the normal gasket. Just don't put too much in there to prevent it squeezing out into the inside.  I use disposable gloves and apply a thin coat with my fingers rather than using a bead straight from the tube.

 

One common issue with the old end gaskets is that they appear to be too long at first look and many have trimmed them before installation.  That always causes a leak.  Not saying you did that, but it is common.

[harmony]

2 hours ago, kencombs said:

So the oil leak is at the rear pan gasket area?  But the gasket is not damaged?  That would be a perfect time and place  for modern 'gasket maker', not as a gasket maker per se, but as an add-on to the normal gasket. Just don't put too much in there to prevent it squeezing out into the inside.  I use disposable gloves and apply a thin coat with my fingers rather than using a bead straight from the tube.

 

One common issue with the old end gaskets is that they appear to be too long at first look and many have trimmed them before installation.  That always causes a leak.  Not saying you did that, but it is common.

Yes I agree with everything you said.  I did take the preclusions and left the 2 end gaskets longer on all four ends before I installed it last time.  I think when I reinstall the pan this time, besides a thin coat of the permatex aviation form-a gasket on all surfaces I might put a dab of high temp RTV in each corner. 

[kencombs]

35 minutes ago, harmony said:

Yes I agree with everything you said.  I did take the preclusions and left the 2 end gaskets longer on all four ends before I installed it last time.  I think when I reinstall the pan this time, besides a thin coat of the permatex aviation form-a gasket on all surfaces I might put a dab of high temp RTV in each corner. 

On the end gaskets, I'd prefer only RTV, on all faces.  It is slippery when wet and helps the gasket 'shrink' into position, at least IMO.