'53 B-4TA-190 Fire Engine

[E37Bruco]

Anybody have a C-Series parts catalog? If so can somebody look up this brake clip since it's apparently newer than a B series. I can't justify spending a hundred some dollars just to look up one part.

[Dodgeb4ya]

That 1953 DPH brake spring/ clip part # 1501399 is shown in these C and K series part book pages.

I cannot find anywhere a picture of your style spring clip.

I google searched timken dph brake and found the guy and Ward Lafrance fire truck I sold the early style springs and retainer clip to back in 2012 on this site!

Time flies....

[E37Bruco]

Weird....then where did this single piece clip come from ???

 

A 1952 Seagrave fire engine used my style too. I've checked Timken and Wagner catalogs from the 50s and neither sold these springs for DPH brakes.

 

Also in the B-series parts list, what is:

 

SPRING, Shoe and lever

SPRING 

Pin, stght.....2,3,4 (T) #112055

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by E37Bruco

[Dodgeb4ya]

All I know is your "C" style retainer clip is used on all the 1953 and later "T" series and some other heavy tonnage models...K,R,T,V,Y and  later years 700,800 and 900  Dodge trucks according to the parts books.

That 112055 is not a number in any DT parts books....not sure what that is...

[E37Bruco]

11 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

All I know is your "C" style retainer clip is used on all the 1953 and later "T" series and some other heavy tonnage models...K,R,T,V,Y and  later years 700,800 and 900  Dodge trucks according to the parts books.

That 112055 is not a number in any DT parts books....not sure what that is...

Here is my November 5th 1953 B-series part list that shows those 112055s

 

This would make me believe that 1953;

B4T's require:

(4) 1501399

(4) 112055

B4Y's require:

(4) 1192603

(4) 112055

(4) 1192604

 

Im assuming then you mean the 1501399 is the yellow clips I have and 1192603/1192604 is the coil spring and retainers you have? Also meaning earlier Ts used 1192603/1192049 as coil spring and retainer?

 

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by E37Bruco

[Dodgeb4ya]

I am going (maybe)  to only have the spring and clip for the "R" series truck model.. 1390877 spring and retainer # 1191826....They probably are smaller in size than the early 1192603/1192049 spring and retainer.

The 1955 "T" axle I have is an air brake axle....completely different brake shoe set up....

And yes I'm thinking your broken "C" style spring clip is the #1501399. Four of them used on the B3/4 series "T" trucks...

"earlier Ts used 1192603/1192049 as coil spring...and retainer?"........yes...looks to be the case from your parts sheet.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Dodgeb4ya

[E37Bruco]

So I got Chrysler #1501399 used in:
1952-53 B-Series T
1954-56 C-Series T
(What's this?) C-Series "3A" K,KM,T,Y
1957 Model 700,800,900

 

All these trucks and nowhere to get a clip lol

[Dodgeb4ya]

I don't fully understand the "C" series truck number and letter codes.

For parts I have usuallu traveled to estern Washington 35 years ago...

That's where I was always able to find parts for my big trucks as that's where they were mostly used.

[E37Bruco]

If I cannot find anybody able to make this clip, because everybody's complaining about not knowing the alloy or how to heat treat it, what are your thoughts on welding the shoe into the lever assembly??

[Dodgeb4ya]

I would say no to welding the shoe to the lever.

I wish I could see your parts and issue in person.

If the square holes? the broken spring clip fits into is the same size shape as in the earlier 1952 and back B2/3 T trucks...those trucks that use the retainer and stiff short coil spring,

Maybe you could use a heavy duty stiff coil spring like found in the end of a drag link and fab up the retainer.

[Dodgeb4ya]

I did take apart the H300 rear brakes today off one of my 2-3/4 ton Timken axles.

This shows the coil spring and some retainer plate and how it holds the shoe to the dual sided lever assembly.

Could you use the same spring and retainer  on your larger shoe and lever?

[9 foot box]

   I have a Century Spring catalog. There is an online catalog also. I would think that you could find something that would work. This is a page I picked that seemed close to what was pictured. Rick D.

[E37Bruco]

I honestly don't see why I couldn't use that coil spring setup. Now our levers and shoes are different part numbers, but they look almost identical. My levers seem thicker metal. But the holes are the same shape. I'll have to measure the gap widths. 

 

But I do not see why that's spring and retainer would not work. And it was used in B2Ts per the parts manual, also the lever assemblies for the Ts remained the same all thru Bs

 

Update: making some progress. Got the alloy of the clip identified as annealed 1074 spring steel. Was given the heat tempering info also. Took that information to a large operation blacksmith who had previously said he could make them but wasn't sure the alloy or tempering requirements. So now that all the questions are answered he's gonna price out making 6 of them. He's also going to price out making a retainers like your Y series truck for coil springs. Price will then dictate which I go with. I'm about out on my initial budget for this build. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by E37Bruco

[Dodgeb4ya]

Hopefully his pricing will not be crazy $$$.

If you wentbthe coil spring setup ...The retainer for the coil spring set up could be pretty easy to make...nothing much to it.

The spring is fairly strong and of thivk wire. I would think not too hard to come by.

That spring is a pretty tight sqeeze with big channel locks to install.

I vould see the spring clip could be a better design to install....though subject to failure if over sqeezed or judt pitting and breaking.

[E37Bruco]

What are the length and width of that spring uncompressed? 

 

Disregard. That h300 would be a B4R correct? Which all those Rs used a different spring than the Ts, Vs, and Ys

 

While the B2T used the same spring as all the Vs and Ys, it used a different retainer. Probably wider for the thicker assembly. I'm having him fab a retainer based on the clips dimensions.

Edited December 16, 2022 by E37Bruco

[Dodgeb4ya]

Yes the spring is out of the "R" series truck axle... one all by itself..

Spring length .810"

Diameter .843

Wire diameter .180"

Shoe Lever retangular hole .835" X 1.737"

Shoe hole/lever  cutout for spring specs in picture...

Edited December 19, 2022 by Dodgeb4ya

[E37Bruco]

Ill have to measure mine next time I'm up at the fire house. But I did just get a special delivery from the previous owner. The original owners certificate, driver's manual, and some additional literature on the fire pump I've been dying for. 

[Dodgeb4ya]

That's awesome the previous owner followed thru and gave you all the paper work original to your fire truck!

[E37Bruco]

??‍♂️ if anyone ever needs this in a high quality photo let me know haha where was this 2 months ago when I needed it. Pg7 of the B4T owners manual.

[E37Bruco]

I hate the search function of this website haha. 

 

Finishing up wiring while I wait on parts. When I turn the key the fuel gauge pegs to full. I know this tank is damn near empty. Bad gauge? It's a new sender that I matched the ohms ratings for. 

[Los_Control]

What helps is to use the " in your search... such as "fuel gauge wiring"

Wont fix all your issues but may help. I recently searched replacing the bushing for my clutch pedal.

Been discussed 1 thousand times but nothing to really help me.

 

You may want to concentrate on "fuel gauge"

 

 

[E37Bruco]

Disregard the fuel gauge issue. I hooked the aux tank to the factory gauge forgetting its 0-30ohms GM, I have a gauge for that tank I'll install. Picking up a dodge tank tomorrow that's hopefully not full of holes like my original. Then I'll order a 90-0 ohm dodge sender. 

 

Battery was fairly dead from not using for 4 months, odd. Most of the chassis wiring is finished. Had to trickle charge it awhile before I got headlights, wipers, or heater fan to work. But the turn signals, tail lights, and brakes didnt work. You guys add new grounds to your trucks? I have a positive cables going to the frame, engine block, and firewall already. 

Edited January 11, 2023 by E37Bruco

[Dodgeb4ya]

I just use the stock factory  ground cable to the transmission case on mine...

Something must be draining your battery to kill it in four months.

I use a group four on my truck...

It sits all winter and still cranks in the late spring.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Dodgeb4ya

[ggdad1951]

13 hours ago, E37Bruco said:

I hate the search function of this website haha. 

 

Finishing up wiring while I wait on parts. When I turn the key the fuel gauge pegs to full. I know this tank is damn near empty. Bad gauge? It's a new sender that I matched the ohms ratings for. 

 

have you seen this sticky thread?

 

 

[E37Bruco]

3 hours ago, ggdad1951 said:

 

have you seen this sticky thread? Yeah, and when you're rushing you forget it exists ? my apologies.