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'53 B-4TA-190 Fire Engine


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Morning y'all. 

 

So our volunteer fire company is looking to restore our old 1953 Dodge Bruco Fire Engine. Vehicle plate says B-4TA-190, 152HP at 2900rpms, 171HP at 3200rpms. The engine block is stamped with T324-3337, the plate that should be on the manifold side is missing. 

 

My research of the engine stamp points me that it's a 377ci engine, correct? Tho I thought these came originally with a 331ci or 413ci. 

 

My only real question currently is what direction do I search for parts? Most sites focus on the smaller engine blocks. We haven't fired this engine up yet, still cleaning and inspecting everything. What engine parts were universal across the small to large block flatheads?

 

I have attempted to use the search function but it doesn't seem to wanna pull up 377 by itself. I'll have to do some deep browsing thru the forum when I get a chance.

 

Thank you.

20220104_222846.jpg

20220104_224010.jpg

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OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  LOOK at that stainless!  Glad it is being saved!

 

More pics please!

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awesome project!  there are some people on the forum that have larger trucks but do not know they are that size.  there is another website that is tied to this one and they do have some good info, including the service manual for the B4: https://dodgepilothouseclub.org/know/B4_manual/manual.htm

 

there is also a sticky with several vendors that may be handy as well.

 

Good luck and welcome to the forum!

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Thank you Lingle. I've been browsing around the pilothouse website for a week now haha. 

 

Still slightly limited on the bigger trucks. I understand the mechanics are very similar. So it's moreso confirming the engine size, and probably finding proper replacement ignition system. I'm currently bench working the starter and Generator. The rest of the motor looks pretty solid. She isn't seized. Once the starter is good we will compression test it. 

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59 minutes ago, E37Bruco said:

Thank you Lingle. I've been browsing around the pilothouse website for a week now haha. 

 

Still slightly limited on the bigger trucks. I understand the mechanics are very similar. So it's moreso confirming the engine size, and probably finding proper replacement ignition system. I'm currently bench working the starter and Generator. The rest of the motor looks pretty solid. She isn't seized. Once the starter is good we will compression test it. 

 

there is a FB forum for these trucks where there is a guy who deciphers engine models and details, if you cannot find the information here or the other site it may be worth reaching out there as well.

Edited by Lingle
added clarity
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Ok...

Door Vin Plate "B-4-TA 190"...

B= B series Truck

4= year (1953)

T= 3 Ton Rating

A= 2 Speed Rear Axle (Timkin Double Reduction)

190= 190" WB

As for the "T" series trucks they originally came with the 331ci T322 engine.....3-3/4" bore X 5" stroke.

Your fire engine truck has a

T324-3337 engine.

That T324...engine is a designated 4 ton truck engine that first came out in 1951 and was used through 1953.

The T324...engine was used in the  biggest of the Dodge truck line "Y" series trucks.

But now...Gets a little sticky.

That T324..engine from 1951 thru 1952 is a 377ci. 4" bore X 5" stroke.

The T324.. engine starting in 1953 had a bore and stroke increase to make it a 413ci.

4-1/16" bore X 5-5/16" stroke.

The only easy way to see which T324.. engine is in the fire engine (377 or 413) And how to do that is to remove the 7/16" hex plug over #6 cylinder and measure the piston stroke using a straight piece of say 1/8" steel rod.

Remove the hex plug...set 10"-12" rod down hole to piston top.

Remove all spark plugs so the engine will turn over easily by turning the fan (fan belts need to be tight) or use thumb to keep belt tension while turning fan.

Measure the total up/down rod travel while rotating the engine using the fan.

5" is a 377ci.

5-5/16" is a 413ci.

That engine will run just fine...

The Moly Block engines are serious heavy duty engines.

Change the oil and filter.

Clean and rebuild the Ball and Ball carbs....easy to get the carb kits...

Could be E7U1 or 2

                E9G1..

NAPA/O'Reilly's even has the kits..I just bought two kits for a 413 I did carbs on. 

Points, condensor.... All I will say don't buy new from a parts store...Chinese junk. I would just to get it up and running carefully clean the existing points..set to .020" check the cap and rotor...it will fire right up.

Fuel pump and tank will be a problem...get the pump rebuilt with a ethanol resistant diaphram etc.

Gad tank....well look at it clean it...do what it needs to be real clean and rust free.

There is plenty more to get caught up on needed maintenance....let others offer up on that.

Looks like that truck has hydraulics with the double bladder brake booster...didn't see a air compressor.

That's another story there!

Good to see the engine given new life!

 

 

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Rob, that would sure look good here in the PNW! Don’t you think? After the last couple Fire season years around here, we could have gone around snuffing out some flames..... 

 

I think you should consider converting “Big Red”.... think about it, retirement supplement 😂

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It was still looking good in the '90's. I'm guessing at some point in time it was left parked outside and no longer used. That's a shame. Glad to see it getting some love again.

It's interesting that all of the valving and hose connections are between the front and rear cab doors. Is the pump driven from the PTO and placed in that space too? 

I wonder if this serial number identifier/decoder will show which engine this truck would have? Just type your chassis serial number in and see what it shows. https://www.t137.com/registry/help/decode.php 

Edited by Merle Coggins
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Merle,

 

Has spent the last 20 years in a cul-de-sac under a blue tarp 😭

 

The pump is powered from a transfer case. The driveshaft leaves the transmission, goes into the pump transfer case (where you select road-neutral-pump)then out to the rear axle. The pump is located under a rearward facing seat then. 

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2 hours ago, Merle Coggins said:

It was still looking good in the '90's. I'm guessing at some point in time it was left parked outside and no longer used. That's a shame. Glad to see it getting some love again.

It's interesting that all of the valving and hose connections are between the front and rear cab doors. Is the pump driven from the PTO and placed in that space too? 

I wonder if this serial number identifier/decoder will show which engine this truck would have? Just type your chassis serial number in and see what it shows. https://www.t137.com/registry/help/decode.php 

The decoder came out with a 331ci and t322 motor lol. Unfortunately I'm sure this truck has a lot of oddities for the purpose. The generator on this is bigger then any stock dodge truck from the time period too, Auto-Lite GGJ-6002B

Edited by E37Bruco
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5 hours ago, Brent B3B said:

Rob, that would sure look good here in the PNW! Don’t you think? After the last couple Fire season years around here, we could have gone around snuffing out some flames..... 

 

I think you should consider converting “Big Red”.... think about it, retirement supplement 😂

Ah....

Brent..I love Big Red as is!

I store my Massey in the back...

Yes with the global warming..here especially on the left coast we do need more fire trucks.

Oddly there are two 1951-52 "T" series fire trucks here In the PNW...

One was is up in the LaConner/Mt Vernon area ....the other down in Orting.

The one in LaConner was the Monroe Fair Grounds Fire truck...as I recall a 190" wb truck.

I have not seen either in over 25 years.

Private owners on both trucks.

The one in Orting was occasionally used in their local parade.

I sure do like the chrome grille and look of the 190" wb.

You can see more of these Dodge fire trucks searching google and Flicker Dodge heavy trucks.

The twin screw is the rarest of rare.

There is one some where down in central Oregon.

The guy posted about  it here about 5-10 years ago...needing a trans...and I forgot I had one for it🥴

Edited by Dodgeb4ya
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6 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Ok...

Door Vin Plate "B-4-TA 190"...

B= B series Truck

4= year (1953)

T= 3 Ton Rating

A= 2 Speed Rear Axle (Timkin Double Reduction)

190= 190" WB

As for the "T" series trucks they originally came with the 331ci T322 engine.....3-3/4" bore X 5" stroke.

Your fire engine truck has a

T324-3337 engine.

That T324...engine is a designated 4 ton truck engine that first came out in 1951 and was used through 1953.

The T324...engine was used in the  biggest of the Dodge truck line "Y" series trucks.

But now...Gets a little sticky.

That T324..engine from 1951 thru 1952 is a 377ci. 4" bore X 5" stroke.

The T324.. engine starting in 1953 had a bore and stroke increase to make it a 413ci.

4-1/16" bore X 5-5/16" stroke.

The only easy way to see which T324.. engine is in the fire engine (377 or 413) And how to do that is to remove the 7/16" hex plug over #6 cylinder and measure the piston stroke using a straight piece of say 1/8" steel rod.

Remove the hex plug...set 10"-12" rod down hole to piston top.

Remove all spark plugs so the engine will turn over easily by turning the fan (fan belts need to be tight) or use thumb to keep belt tension while turning fan.

Measure the total up/down rod travel while rotating the engine using the fan.

5" is a 377ci.

5-5/16" is a 413ci.

That engine will run just fine...

The Moly Block engines are serious heavy duty engines.

Change the oil and filter.

Clean and rebuild the Ball and Ball carbs....easy to get the carb kits...

Could be E7U1 or 2

                E9G1..

NAPA/O'Reilly's even has the kits..I just bought two kits for a 413 I did carbs on. 

Points, condensor.... All I will say don't buy new from a parts store...Chinese junk. I would just to get it up and running carefully clean the existing points..set to .020" check the cap and rotor...it will fire right up.

Fuel pump and tank will be a problem...get the pump rebuilt with a ethanol resistant diaphram etc.

Gad tank....well look at it clean it...do what it needs to be real clean and rust free.

There is plenty more to get caught up on needed maintenance....let others offer up on that.

Looks like that truck has hydraulics with the double bladder brake booster...didn't see a air compressor.

That's another story there!

Good to see the engine given new life!

 

 

When I get a chance I'll pull that plug and check the stroke. She has 2 E9G1 Carter carbs. 

 

I planned to pull and clean the fuel tanks. Attached is a photo of the fuel pump. Doesn't match anything I'm finding on sites or I'm the manuals. 

 

Also that split rear, I haven't spoken with the older guys yet, do you shift low 1-5 then hi 1-5. Or 1 low, 1 hi, 2 low, 2 hi, etc? Mainly getting at if she's empty of water can I just drive it in high only haha. 

 

20220111_202048.jpg

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That is a Carter # MS859SA...

Generally the high flow E9G1 carbs are used on the 413 engine.

Shifting the trans and rear axle...

Shift 1 lo, 1 high...2lo, 2 high.

Normally 1st gear is not used..granny gear.

You can shift 2,3,4, and 5 the shift into rear axle high under light loads.

There are pics of the 2 spd axle shifting instruction plate factory screwed to the glove box door some where on this forum.

 

20210925_174454_compress69.jpg0

2 Speed instruction Plate.jpg

Edited by Dodgeb4ya
shift plate instr.
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Ya I'm loving the quick answers. You all are making my job easy. I've been struggling with the search bar. Everything comes up no results. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

I've been able to source just about everything we need to get this engine compartment cleaned up. I was unable to locate just the fuel filters for those 2 Carter in-lines, I believe they are F827 based on images online I found. So I guess just replace the whole this with something newer. Also I can't find a lick of parts for that fuel pump, I found NOS ones only. Was unable to locate kits under any of the vender lists, I'll probably email then-now-auto about it. 

 

Seriously tho, you all are amazing! 

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You will have to send the fuel pump out to be rebuilt...Terrill Machine?

Then and Now ...aka Antique Parts Cellar might have a kit though.

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7 hours ago, E37Bruco said:

Ya I'm loving the quick answers. You all are making my job easy. I've been struggling with the search bar. Everything comes up no results. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

I've been able to source just about everything we need to get this engine compartment cleaned up. I was unable to locate just the fuel filters for those 2 Carter in-lines, I believe they are F827 based on images online I found. So I guess just replace the whole this with something newer. Also I can't find a lick of parts for that fuel pump, I found NOS ones only. Was unable to locate kits under any of the vender lists, I'll probably email then-now-auto about it. 

 

Seriously tho, you all are amazing! 

 

Try reading thru this thread for help searching, it is more towards searching on the computer full site version vs. cellphone version.

 

https://p15-d24.com/topic/46048-search-help/

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DodgeB4ya, 

 

What would be the difference between the Carter fuel pumps M859SA and M859S? I've found a rebuild kit for the M859S, also in the 53 B-4 service book it says the TA came with that one. 

Edited by E37Bruco
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20 hours ago, E37Bruco said:

Ya I'm loving the quick answers. You all are making my job easy. I've been struggling with the search bar. Everything comes up no results. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

I've been able to source just about everything we need to get this engine compartment cleaned up. I was unable to locate just the fuel filters for those 2 Carter in-lines, I believe they are F827 based on images online I found. So I guess just replace the whole this with something newer. Also I can't find a lick of parts for that fuel pump, I found NOS ones only. Was unable to locate kits under any of the vender lists, I'll probably email then-now-auto about it. 

 

Seriously tho, you all are amazing! 

Don't those filters have a ceramic element you can clean and reuse? Otherwise try

 

fuelfilter2.jpg

 

 

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Originally yes ceramic.

I used these blue ceramic filters in my 413..

 

20220114_172503_compress76.jpg

20220114_172702_compress1.jpg

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The ceramic filters are pricey...kinda hard to find with gasket...they certainly will last as long as you can drive a fire truck.

I've had the the same ceramic filters in my 4 tonner for over 30 years.

The NAPA ones Young Ed shows will be just fine too...in fact I just ordered a couple for another truck engine.

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