Richard Johnson Posted January 9, 2022 Report Share Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) Help!! I’ve got a 1954 Chrysler Windsor deluxe, with a 3 speed standard trans (with Fluid-drive Pinion). I disassembled and found a broken 3rd gear tooth and reverse idle gear. Replaced these along with the clutch gear synchronizer and put it all back together. Problem is when I try and shift it on the bench, the counter shaft gear always has 2nd gear and the drive pinion engaged all the time. How can this possibly work? Basically, the input shaft and the output shaft are always joined together by the counter shaft gear all the time. Please help? Rich Edited January 10, 2022 by Richard Johnson Photos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 10, 2022 Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 If you haven't got a manual I can post pictures. Otherwise I've never been into mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted January 10, 2022 Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 https://www.web.imperialclub.info/Repair/Lit/Films/018/index.htm https://www.web.imperialclub.info/Repair/Lit/Films/019/index.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt den Posted January 10, 2022 Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 richard, wish i could help, but i know nothing about tranny's. i would like to see a picture of your car as i also own a54 windsor, a convertible. i am a big fan of these particular cars. i do have some extra parts if you need anything. i am searching for fender skirts and a bullseye headlight. these cars are pretty rare with the 3 speed standard tranny's. the powerflites were new and in demand for these chryslers that year. hope you get yous sorted out. capt den Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Johnson Posted January 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Richard Johnson said: Help!! I’ve got a 1954 Chrysler Windsor deluxe, with a 3 speed standard trans (with Fluid-drive Pinion). I disassembled and found a broken 3rd gear tooth and reverse idle gear. Replaced these along with the clutch gear synchronizer and put it all back together. Problem is when I try and shift it on the bench, the counter shaft gear always has 2nd gear and the drive pinion engaged all the time. How can this possibly work? Basically, the input shaft and the output shaft are always joined together by the counter shaft gear all the time. Please help? Rich Thank-you guys that have replied so far, I do have the manual, and from what I can tell, I put it together correctly... Please help if you know this issue? Thanks, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Johnson Posted January 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Johnson Posted January 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) What is puzzling to me is, the cluster gear is engaged in the front to the Drive pinion gear (54) and it’s also engaged to the second gear (57) always. That being said, if the 1st/reverse gear is engaged (64) it should lock up right? Same in reverse, so how is it supposed to work, that’s why I’m puzzled… Edited January 10, 2022 by Richard Johnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Johnson Posted January 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 I’ve re-wired the dash and engine compartment, had engine overhauled (shipped to them) by 818 767-6603 Valley Auto Parts and Engines 8212 Sunland Blvd Sun Valley, CA 91352 http://www.vapengines.com/ runs great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kencombs Posted January 10, 2022 Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 HOw about a pic with the shift cover off? And label parts like the manual, I think what you have called the 'counter shaft gear' is the cluster gear? If so it is only an active part of the gear train when in low, reverse or second. In nuetral or high gear it just spins on the countershaft gear. I also think the drive pinion is what is normally called the main drive gear. The power flow in first is MDG to cluster, cluster to the low/reverse sliding gear. In Second it is MDG/CLUSTER/SECOND on the mainshaft. High is just direct in to out. When not part of the power flow path the second gear just spins with the mainshaft as the clutch gear is not engaged. Forget about the Pic as it is almost impossible to get one together with the gears in wrong. Shift forks and bearings can be turned around of installed backward, but gears only go in one way. I'd bet you have it OK, just not aware of the in--mesh but not in the power flow thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Johnson Posted January 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Johnson Posted January 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 Photos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 10, 2022 Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 hour ago, kencombs said: Forget about the Pic as it is almost impossible to get one together with the gears in wrong. Shift forks and bearings can be turned around of installed backward, but gears only go in one way. I'd bet you have it OK, just not aware of the in--mesh but not in the power flow thing. Are you trying to tell him it won't mesh unless it's turning like being driven? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Johnson Posted January 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) Shifts into 1st but locks up, then into reverse but locks up. The syncro works fine, slides in both directions. As I said, when in third gear, locks up or in reverse, locks up. Neutral everything spins in unison… Edited January 11, 2022 by Richard Johnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kencombs Posted January 10, 2022 Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 42 minutes ago, Bryan said: Are you trying to tell him it won't mesh unless it's turning like being driven? No that is not what I said, I don't think! It's just a description of the power flow. Google should have a lot of cutaways and power flow diagrams. My manual is not at the house so I can't copy a page right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kencombs Posted January 10, 2022 Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) Pics are so closeup I can't tell what position all the gears are in, only 2nd and 3rd. With the 2/3 shift collar in neutral (both brass clutch rings exposed) and the Low//rev slider in neutral, does the MDG turn freely without moving the main shaft? Edited January 10, 2022 by kencombs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted January 10, 2022 Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 Did you go an watch the service video in the link? James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Johnson Posted January 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 Link doesn’t work, sorry, please fix and I will… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted January 10, 2022 Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 Checked it and both links work for me?? I'm using Firefox. You might right click the link, copy and paste into your browser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kencombs Posted January 10, 2022 Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, Sniper said: Checked it and both links work for me?? I'm using Firefox. You might right click the link, copy and paste into your browser. works for me too, also Firefox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldodge41 Posted January 10, 2022 Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 The first link works good for me in Chrome. The second link works in Chrome also, but I only get audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Johnson Posted January 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 Having trouble posting my comments, anyway thanks guys, I will try this binding issue and even the old low gear that I still have: https://www.web.imperialclub.info/Repair/Lit/Master/165/Page12.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Johnson Posted January 11, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 Can anyone tell me if once assembled, while on the bench, if I shift into reverse or first gear, will it rotate by hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kencombs Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 6 hours ago, Richard Johnson said: Can anyone tell me if once assembled, while on the bench, if I shift into reverse or first gear, will it rotate by hand? Yes it will. But expect it to be stiff unless you pre-lubed everything when assembling. I asked earlier, but does the MDG turn without turning the mainshaft when in neutral on the bench? In all the pics you have up it looks to always be in gear, maybe two at once, but the angle and closeness makes it difficult to see for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Johnson Posted January 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) Ken, Because the MDG and second gear are always engaged to the cluster gear, they both will always turn, and they do turn freely together. But, when the low (1st/rev) gear slides in next to second, it locks up both input and output shafts. Same when low gear goes into reverse; because it connects to the cluster gear, they all try to spin together… Edited January 12, 2022 by Richard Johnson Adds rev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kencombs Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Richard Johnson said: Ken, Because the MDG and second gear are always engaged to the cluster gear, they both will always turn, and they do turn freely together. at that point does the mainshaft rotate? But, when the low (1st/revare you sure the 2/3rd clutch sleeve is in neutral?) gear slides in next to second, it locks up both input and output shafts. Same when low gear goes into reverse; because it connects to the cluster gear, they all try to spin together… are you sure the 2/3rd clutch sleeve is in neutral? The description sure sounds like it is two gears at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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