'47 P15 Special Deluxe Head Gasket Advice Would Be Helpful.

[47P15Cruiser]

Hey guys finally got my '47 running after replacing fuel tank with sending unit and generator along with starter but as I was letting it idle notice it was running hot and I have already replaced water pump, thermostat, hoses and radiator and my only other guess would have to be the head gasket, does anyone know the torque specs for the head bolts or any other related info I would highly appreciate your guys help. Seems like I have to keep dumping money but totally worth it

[Sniper]

In all honest, one should have the service manual when working on a vehicle.  RockAuto sells an electronic version on CD.  I had to fire up my old laptop because that was the only thing that had a CD player in it, put it on a thumb drive.

 

That all said, there is an engine manual in our downloads section that not only has the torque specs but the pattern you need to torque the head bolts in.

 

 

[Bryan]

Did it have an overheating problem before when it ran X years ago?   How did the D shaped water distribution tube look when you replaced the water pump?   See any deposits?  

[Andydodge]

Also its a good idea to knock the welch plugs out, there are 5 on the dissy side then insert a piece of welding wire and loosen the sludge etc also undo the wtaer drain tap on the same side and insert the wire in there........then insert a hose and squirt it around hopefully there won't be too much crud left.......also as mentioned did you check the Water Distribution Tube that lives directly behind the water pump?........these can rust out resulting in a poor distribution of water throughout the block.........andyd 

[Go Fleiter]

water distributing tube is essential for cooling evenly!

 

Rock auto sells the gaskets too, I prefer Victor Reinz´s.

https://www.rockauto.com/de/catalog/plymouth,1951,cranbrook,3.6l+218cid+l6,1349917,engine,cylinder+head+gasket,5412

[Sniper]

Es ist auf Deutsch lol. Same price though.

[47P15Cruiser]

@SniperI appreciate the help with the service manual and I haven't gave it a full look thru but I will look into it and thanks again!

 

[47P15Cruiser]

@Bryan  about those plugs I do have like two out of 5 leaking or was leaking is there another way to remove those?

[47P15Cruiser]

@Go Fleiter where exactly is that water distribution tube at? Cuz I was thinking maybe the head gasket and the fact that's there's no expansion tank for coolant maybe?

[Bryan]

I have seen where people use a drill, drill a hole in he center of the plugs and pry them out. Don't drill too deep, just in the plug. The water distribution tube  is behind the water pump.  MTSC - 1948, Volume 2-1 When The Temperature Rises - YouTube

[Andydodge]

There are 5 of those welch plugs on the distributor side, from memory its best to remove the generator & starter to get at them all.......also the dissy maybe in the way............firstly I'd undo the bottom radiator hose, then the water drain tap which from memory uses a normal right hand thread into the block......the actual tap uses a left hand thread to open its "port".......due to sludge etc even undoing the tap may not result in any water coming out as the sludge tends to block the drain opening..........so remove the tap...completely clean it and then start at the welch plugs......depending on how much clearance in the engine bay you have you maybe able to drill a 1/8th hole in each plug, tape aroung the drill so it does NOT go thru more than 1/4-3/8th then screw a self tapping screw into the hole and using a claw hammer gently use the claw to remove the screw with the plug attached.........or get an old straight bladed screw driver or VERY small cold chissel and use either to make a tear or cut into the welch plug & again, remove it...........from memory these are 1 &13/16th diameter and I would try to obtain BRASS ones....steel if you have to are fine but brass don't rust............ojnce removed use and insert a piece of stiff wire, say 12-15" long which should give you ample chance to loosen any crud......then use a hose to wash out crud.............clean the area where the plugs sit in the block, use some non hardening gasket goo/ permatex gasket stuff around the recessed area in the block and sit the new plug on the recessed area........using a 3/8-1/2" diameter drift give a solid tap in the centre of the new plug which pushes the centre in, resulting in the outer edges of the plug being forced into the hole edges and sealing itself in the block

.............the Water Distribution Tube lives directly behind the water pump in a "d" shape hole in the front of the block and can be an absolute PITA to remove or a simple job, depending on its condition.........it seems that the original tubes were made just of mild steel ands so rust becomes an issue and they can fall apart in being removed.........they are not held in the block with anything, just by being inserted into a very tight area.........once removed I would never place a new or old tube made of mild steel back in the block........brass and copper tubes have been made and for my money a much better alternative............the attached pic shows the water tube I had which from memory was a brass one.........note the taper and the holes cut into the top edge which allows water to feed under the exhaust ports............also try & get hold of a paper workshop manual........a much better deal than a computer disc in my opinion............have fun............andyd                          

[Go Fleiter]

You should look for a Service Manual!

It shows all You may need!

Greetings from Düsseldorf!

Go

 

 

[rrice2000]

Hi, I went through all this myself recently. I would just add three points. I cleaned my block at least 3 times using cleaning vinegar. I let it sit for about a week between clean-out. I also used a pressure washer to get down through some of the head bolt holes. That cleared out an amazing amount of crud. I also had my old head milled just in case it had warped. Finally, the service manual (I think) advises to re-torque the head bolts after the engine has warmed up once. In my case, I solved the overheating, but discovered I have a ring problem, so I am looking at a tear-down. BTW, I also replaced all the head bolts @$3 per bolt. I figured the risk of a break-off was high, and I did not want to be drilling one out! I hope some of this helps!

[47P15Cruiser]

@Bryan ok sounds good will try my best to get those freeze plugs out because for sure they are leaking and is that hard to find the brass ones?

also thank you for that video very informative.

[47P15Cruiser]

@Andydodge  oh ok that makes sense I didnt even think about checking that tube out when I had did the water pump, do you know where I would be able to find a brass one in the l.a. county? and I see you upgraded the valve cover/head and was that hard to find as well?

[47P15Cruiser]

@Go Fleiter I have the service manual well atleast a version of it and not very helpful and I like to ask people with these similar cars for advise and their expertise just cuz they have encounter these issues before. but the info ypu provide did help very much and thank you again. 

[47P15Cruiser]

@rrice2000 oh I see a lot of time and dedication on the block which is good. may I ask where you were ale to get the head bolts or you can go to any hardware store and locate some?

[Andydodge]

47P15cruiser.........I'm in Australia, South Grafton, Oz country on the east coast.........

...............I was in the process of collecting parts to build a hotted up 230 for the 41 Plymouth Coupe I had, twin carbs, cam, finned head, split exhaust, etc but sold the engine & bits when I sold the car due to financial issues a few years ago, still got the 40 Dodge tho' ...............

...............I got the Finned Head from Earl Edgerton in L.A. who had these cast up, the Montana Mopar Boys who post on this forum now are apparently doing these heads......the twin carb Offy intake I got from Speedway Motors tho' it and various other types appear on ebay, a HEI Dissy from Stovebolt Engineering in the USA( I installed it on the stock 201 in the Plymouth Coupe & was the best thing I did to that car), the 230 Cam I got reground to 1/2 race specs by Waggotts here in Oz, the finned side covers I got from Patricks in either Florida or Arizona(?) I think, the exhaust manifolds are a pair of the two different outlet 23" cast iron exhaust manifolds I cut and had a local blacksmith weld up(US sourced tube & cast headers do not fit as the Oz RHD steering box lives between the Fuel & Oil pumps so I had to find stock exhaust manifolds with outlets that I knew cleared the RHD steering box & column), various engine parts including the new oil pump, lifters, valve guides & springs, timing chain and gears all came from listings on USA ebay BUT were actually from guys in Turkey, yep, that Turkey.........

..................Mopar apparently had their Middle East Distribution Centre based in Turkey & when it closed a large number of parts ended up still there.........I used to search USA ebay in listings covering 1948 to 1959 Plymouth & Dodge and all these parts were brand new, USA sourced still in their brand name or mopar boxes......the parts were about 1/2 the relevant US prices which was about 1/4 of the current Oz prices so it does pay to search around once you know what fits what............I think from memory the brass water tube came from a guy here in Oz..........but I would not use a mild steel tube unless I had it copper plated or made sure I ran proper coolant in the radiator..........

............the 230 engine I was using was an ex Sydney Airport Tug engine, 23" engines are not that common here in oz as most mopar sixes used after WW2 were the 25" DeSoto/Chrysler variants due to being imported from Canada via the UK.......just the way it was done to reduce import taxes and tarrifs.........removal of the original water tube was a PITA, even as I had just the bare engine block to deal with.....lol...........regards, Andy Douglas             

[47P15Cruiser]

@Andydodge how love that build and I really like your post and wish I had the money and time to do all the research to locate parts that I would need. its really an inspiration to see that and some day when I good financially I would complete that dream.