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You missed one Sniper. 86 and later s10 t5 ratios......

1st - 3.76 2nd - 2.18 3rd - 1.41 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.72
i had that in my 59 Lark with the stock flatty. Went down the road just fine. Freeway speeds and road trips no problem. I think 99% of people don't want or need anything other than a 3 speed. They're cars sit on battery tenders and only are driven on sunny days and for short trips. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that but some of us drive them daily and having an extra gear, even if not the most desirable, is still better than putting around at 55 everywhere. Now, my 53 is so stock, I wouldn't consider doing a swap unless I come across an r10 for cheap which just isn't going to happen. 

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the first and second gear ratios are way low compared to the stock 3 speed, it's like a granny gear, lol.  While the Mustang T5 is closest to stock ratios I've seen, so far, I have an A833OD on the shelf, shelf is what I will probably go with.

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I agree, first few gearscare low. Once you get on the highway and row it into fifth, it's worth it. At least for me. I like the A833 OD too, just not as available or inexpensive. I did just pass on one for 300 though. I don't have anything to put it in and I try not to be a hoarder, haha. 

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4 hours ago, Bobb Horn said:

 

 

I would have to agree, it would take me more than a morning to bolt in a 5 speed.      The T5s are plentyful, and not expensive, and with a little research, or just ask on here, one will find there are a great number of different ratios available.      The T5s do require, in most cases, an adapter plate, and a little welding, but doable.     Myself working on a budget, not because I need to, but because  I wanted something no one else has done before, that I could find, desided to try the TK5, no adapter, and only a small amount of changing.    After going through three 3 speeds going bad, I did the TK5.   The TK5 Ranger trans and parts are easy to find in most areas and not expensive.     I paid less than $100 for each trans, and $25 for the mill work on one.    I, as many others, do not worry about "collectability", only that we enjoy what we do with what we have.

rod run 600.jpg

nice work. pre 40s stuff shifter is on the floor. That wont fly for after War cars

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On 7/28/2021 at 6:04 PM, Sniper said:

In another thread I started I had a table of trans gear ratios compared to stock.  I updated it to add the S10 T5 and the Ford TK5 ratios.  They both are horrible, imo.  The non world class 83-84 mustang T5 is closer to stock.

 

 

 

trans gear ratios.xlsx 12.04 kB · 14 downloads

Stock is what is horrible, engine always busy with rpms, have to stop to go to first gear.     I went through several stock three speeds before I went with the TK5.    First is low with the 3.9 stock rear, and is still a little low with the 3.7 Ranger gear, but still worth it with some steep hills/driveways here in Va.    4th and 5th work great.      Even a TK4 four speed would be better than my stock 3 speeds.      My Coupe only has 82hp, so the trans makes it more enjoyable.....

 

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Going to agree to disagree here.  I like the stock gear spread and with an OD it would be pretty close to perfect.  I mean the TK5's 2nd gear is almost as low as the stock 1st gear and you think the stock trans is busy with rpm?

 

Maybe I am not understanding what you mean by that.  Anyway that's what makes the country a wonderful place, you can be happy with the TK5 and I can be happy with something else and no one is upset. 

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"stock trans is busy with rpm"....     What I mean is running my three different stock trans, at around 55mph, the engine is running at alot of rpm, around 3000 rpm best I can remember.      With the 5 speed, I run around 2000rpm at 55 or so.     Where I live, it is hilly, and some open roads.    Lower gears are great on steep driveways, and some of my friends live in some difficult places.    Much of my driving is on 55 and 60 speed limits.    So the TK5 works great for where I live.

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Hmm

Has a second gear the same as the stock first gear.

Has a fifth gear with 28% overdrive.

Have to use clutch on every gear change.

Had to change whole rear end to get to 3.7 to 1 final drive ratio.

Then bored a hole in the floor board to use the shifter, loosing a passenger seat.

Hmm

My Overdrive uses the stock shifter with zero modifications. Didn’t even have to adjust it or the clutch. My three passenger coupe is still a three passenger coupe.

My stock Plymouth rear axle has a differential carrier and I have my choice of gear ratios 3.9 3.73 or 3.54, all on the shelf ready to slide in. Don’t have to remove the whole rear axle to change ratios.

With an Overdrive you don’t have to clutch every gear change and the overdrive is automatic. All you have to do is lift your throttle foot momentarily.

The Plymouth Overdrive is 30%.

When it came time to hook up on the speedometer cable, it fit. When it came time check on the accuracy of the speedometer, I simply put the gears from the original gearbox in the Overdrive, they fit. (For now I left the stock 3.73 final drive ratio in the car)

The Plymouth transmission also has an optional 2nd gear ratio should you desire it. (I have three of them, just in case)

 

On the non-synchro first gear, Borg Warner made Overdrives for 11 makes of cars and trucks clear up to 1973 (Ford pickup) and not one of them had a synchromesh first gear. Why? Because with automatic overdrive a freewheel sprag clutch is required and that helps prevent grinding in first gear.

 

For my money (time & effort) the stock Plymouth Overdrive and stock Mopar rear axle seems like the best solution.....for me.

I know some folks have different ideas but for me this is far and away the best solution. If I can’t convince you, I have an S10 T5 you can buy from my Model A Ford. I am going to change it out for a 1939 V8 transmission, they just work better....for me.

I hope no one is offended by my choices for my car. I just think they work better.... for me. I’ve come to appreciate Chrysler Engineering and so it tickles me to keep my car as all Mopar as I possibly can.

 

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In my truck which has a 218 and a 3:73 i cruise with the semis and still have the ability to pass them at will.  On along climb,  the change down to 2nd is too severe. Pacheco Pass , Ca was all 2nd at the top. It should have pulled it, maybe reason for more tuneups! 
 

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Some of us actually like to shift gears and are old enough that having someone ride next to you isn't a thing.

 

If we really wanted to go the full route, put in an OD automatic then you never have to shift, you can keep a column shifter, torque multiplication, lock up converter and Bob's yer uncle.

 

As for getting a more modern rear ale, I have to state this.  I changed a flat this morning.  Put the E brake on, stuck it in gear and jacked up the pass rear side.  Just as I was pulling the tire off the car started to roll back and fall off the scissors jack.  That's when the realization hit me that an E brake on the trans output is A Bad Idea.  With an open diff the tire with traction will roll and the tire up in the air won't.  Death trap.   I had been thinking about just keeping the stock axle, not any more.  Gone to the scrappers as soon as I can get a modern one, till then a set of chocks, not that I have a spare.

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Shifting vs overdrive. I grew up with shifting so much so that I learned to shift all gears up and down without using the clutch. On,y used the clutch for reverse, 1st and to stop. 

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12 hours ago, Sniper said:

Some of us actually like to shift gears and are old enough that having someone ride next to you isn't a thing.

 

If we really wanted to go the full route, put in an OD automatic then you never have to shift, you can keep a column shifter, torque multiplication, lock up converter and Bob's yer uncle.

 

As for getting a more modern rear ale, I have to state this.  I changed a flat this morning.  Put the E brake on, stuck it in gear and jacked up the pass rear side.  Just as I was pulling the tire off the car started to roll back and fall off the scissors jack.  That's when the realization hit me that an E brake on the trans output is A Bad Idea.  With an open diff the tire with traction will roll and the tire up in the air won't.  Death trap.   I had been thinking about just keeping the stock axle, not any more.  Gone to the scrappers as soon as I can get a modern one, till then a set of chocks, not that I have a spare.

 

I am struggling to put this in a way not to sound snarky.

A set of wheel chocks (and the resolve to use them) is a wise addition to the tire changing equipment of every car you own, especially those with automatic transmissions. All my late model vehicles came from the factory with them. Old bad habits are hard to break but even 4 wheel drive vehicles come with wheel chocks now (and they need them! Don’t ask me how I know).

 

I once thought wheel chocks were a warning that the vehicle had a crappy jack. (You should see what BMW puts in the Mini tool kit!)

Your experience (along with too many of my own) has re-doubled my commitment to use wheel chocks when ever the jack comes out.

In cleaning up my storage this week I found a never used set of folding chocks that are going in the truck of my coupe!

So here’s my logic, if one gets in the good habit of using wheel chocks (and making sure they are always available) then one has no need to go to the trouble of modifying one’s collector car.

Having left a Plymouth drive shaft E brake on and those of other designs, I have more faith in the Plymouth of actually stopping the car in an emergency. So for me I am still not moved to change (pun intended).

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The parking brake was never designed to stop the car.  It's there to keep it from rolling when parked and even then on a hill it is suggested to turn your wheels and put it in gear.  Can it be used when your brakes fail?  Yes, but it's so ineffective that the OEM's went to a split hydraulic system to provide redundancy in case of a failure.  Which I will be doing as well.  Pretty sure I am going to go split front/rear and not diagonally as the latest vehicles are set up.

 

The later style parking brakes that lock each drum in the rearend would have prevented what happened to me.  Fortunately, just a scare and no injuries or damages done.

 

I am not wedded to certain technologies simply because that's how it was done.  I have no problems taking advantage of improvements.  Says the guy building an old school hot rodded 230, with a twist, lol

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One distinct advantage a modern 5 speed has over an R10, especially if you live where there are hills, is the ability to have an OD WITHOUT freewheeling. Not having to stop and disengage the OD cable when going over mountain passes so you don’t cook the brakes on the downhill. 

My son has a D150 /6 833OD and those ratios are awful!

 

Edited by Adam H P15 D30
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8 hours ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

One distinct advantage a modern 5 speed has over an R10, especially if you live where there are hills, is the ability to have an OD WITHOUT freewheeling. Not having to stop and disengage the OD cable when going over mountain passes so you don’t cook the brakes on the downhill. 

My son has a D150 /6 833OD and those ratios are awful!

 

A properly operating R10(or R11) only freewheels when below the OD cut in speed.  So, unless you are driving that slow you should have engine braking.  The real advantage of the OD is the fact that it can be operated as a 2 speed automatic shift in traffic.  Second gear in and out of OD covers a lot of speed range with no clutching.  Especially nice when wired to shift with a manual switch.

 

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