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Bolts to Mount Straight 6 to Stand


ChrisMinelli

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Hello,

 

I found a spare engine to play with out of a 52 Dodge truck, with all the accessories.  It is currently on a pallet.  I don’t have an engine hoist,  but I can get a stand.  My thought is the seller could lift it up (she has a forklift) and I’ll attach it to a stand, which will go in a u haul trailer for the ride home.  
 

What size and length bolts do you recommend for mounting? 
 

Thanks!

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a question one would have difficulty answering....the length will depend on the mount ears of the engine stand....you need to take a measurement of the mounts...allow for backing washers and length for the depth of thread in the block casting...you get than then if you don't know the diameter/pitch..I will walk to the shop to gauge mine....

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Going to go out on a limb here, I may be wrong others will say so if I am.

I would not suggest transporting it standing up in the trailer. Of course that defeats your purpose of rolling it off the trailer.

Maybe if you have 2 big guys one on each side to support it you may keep it upright coming down the ramps .... sketchy at best.

There is a lot of weight there and the engine stand will be top heavy and want to tip over. They roll fine on a flat cement floor.

The other issue is the weight on the cast iron ears. While driving down the road will be bouncing and a good chance will break the cast iron block and ruin it. while falling off the stand at the same time.

 

While a different engine, is a 1951 Ford engine. You can see how I prop it up while sitting in the shop to take the stress off of the cast iron block.

You could do the same while transporting yours, take the bounce out while keeping everything tied down tight.

Going down the ramp is going to be a ride  :)

 

My harbor freight engine stand you see I have 3" bolts outside the block ... I bought bolts too long it seems and made 1/2" spacers. So 2.5" outside and 1"  inside so 3.5" bolts? I imagine I bought 4" and too long so made the spacers.

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I wouldn't transport an engine on a stand either...too risky.

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OK -- I have never had an engine on a stand before and I might be overestimating its strength.  The engine is on a pallet -- I might build be a wooden rig with heavy duty casters and put the pallet right on top.  That way I can wheel it around and drill the two pieces together.  That will give me the chance to remove all the accessories from the engine before I mount it on a stand.  Those things probably add a 1/4 ton of weight.

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Without knowing what you have to work with ... does your garage have exposed trusses? You can use a come along to lift the engine from your truck.

You would not want to attach it to one truss, but if you lay a 8' 4"x4"  in the rafters and spread across 4 trusses to spread out the weight. You can lift the engine from your truck & mount it to your stand.

 

In my case, I drilled a 1.25" hole above the header in my garage door. I open the door and run a chain through the siding then hook my chain pull off of it. Then lifted my engine out of the truck and connected it to the stand and rolled it in ... actually I set it on a piece of plywood sitting on 3 pieces of pipe and rolled it to a corner. When I bought the stand I hooked the chain back up and connected them... My house is built in 1948 and already has a few holes in it, My garage trusses are stick built and do not work for this.

 

2 Hillbilly ways to lift the motor out of your truck when you get home. If you have a finished garage with sheet rock, If you can get the 4"x4" up in the attic & where you need it. You could just poke a hole through the sheet rock and leave a short permanent chain hanging to lift from. Looks like crap? Install a leather shift boot to the ceiling with the chain coming through to trim it off.

 

You have options, need more info for others to supply the best option.

 

I want to add before I get beat up .... using trusses to pull with is never recommended nor considered safe. You Truss builders will cancel your warranty blah  blah  blah.

Trusses are built to support weight on top ... snow load. They are not designed to hang weight from .... but we have done exactly that for years.

As a retired remodel carpenter, I have seen 200 pound men hang from a single truss while we are building the roof.

We have built plywood floors in attics for storage .... we install hvac furnaces in attics, Now I see advertisements for elevators to be installed to haul your storage items to the attic.

We already do it all the time, I think this engine weighs between 500-600 pounds, divided across 4 trusses will be fine. I would not recommend anything heavier then a dodge flathead 6 lifted. Many times you will find the lifting point useful while working in the garage.

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I just bought a set of bolts to do just that.

 

I forget the size though.  But two of them thread into the block and two of them have to have nuts and bolts.  A thread chaser to clean the threads was used. 

 

I used the gantry crane of doom to lift my engine, one lifting eye in the center head bolt hole was perfect.  Good luck finding 7/16 lifting eyes though.  Had to order it online.  My particular stand was a Harbor Freight one that a neighbor gave me.  The arms would only fit in one position, you can sort of see it here.  Sits higher than I'd like and short of an adapter plate it is what it is.

 

20210604_123853.jpg

 

 

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And here for all to see. My complete lack of progress on reassembly of my ‘38 Plymouth engine. 
 

I could pull a bolt out and let you know. Its sort of a trial and error thing. Pending the stand you end up using. Look around for used engine stands. Gotta be some on Facebook Market place. Buy a better quality one. Not Harbor Freight. Mine is rated for 1,000 lbs. paid $50. It unbolts and lays flat for easy storage too. 
 

I now own a 4,000 lb rated hoist too. Free gift from a good friend. Good times! 

 

Yes that’s my poor ‘38 behind the car cover. 

 

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Edited by keithb7
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I have seen some folks mount the block on a stand with the bell housing bolted to the block.  Yet then you can't get the flywheel bolted to the crank anyway. The bell housing has to come off. I'll mount the bell housing last while the assembled engine is dangling by chains off my hoist.

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I bought a Plymouth engine and in order to get it home I borrowed a 'cherry picker' engine hoist, disassembled it for traveling, got to the seller's house, reassembled the picker, laid the flathead six on its side on a de-mounted tire, got home, re-assembled the hoist (again) and unloaded the engine.  Cumbersome but it worked. 

 

I have a couple of engines on cut-down supermarket shopping carts to which I added a plywood floor.  They work well.  (The carts were damaged ones that the local supermarket manager gave to me).

 

I had my engine on an HF stand and didn't trust it so I added blocks of wood for support at the front.

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Regarding trusses, the bottom chord is a tension member and is not really designed to hold anything more than the sheet rock and insulation.  That said, the panel points, where the truss members are connected to the bottom chord, is the strongest point on the bottom chord of a truss. Now, regarding HF engine stands... whatever the HF rating is, reduce it by a third.  They will support the rated load, but it is almost impossible to rotate the block and the stand is very top heavy and unstable when moving the stand with the block attached.  You will thank yourself many times over for spending a couple of bucks more for a bigger engine stand.

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I bent more than one 1,000 lb stand with a flathead block so definitely be wary of the rating. and as rallyace says, you'll be lucky if it rotates at all and frankly it wouldn't be a good idea from a stability standpoint. I recommend making your own cart like Tom's. Easy to make, inexpensive and super convenient to roll around.

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8 hours ago, allbizz49 said:

I wouldn't even think about building or messing around with engines without having a hoist. Lots of good stuff out there for cheap. Buy a hoist and do it right.

 

For some folks, finding an old, low priced assembled engine and tearing it apart is the entire goal. Its a great way to dive in head-first and get a great hands-on education. Getting a hoist and other large specialty tools may not be on the radar yet. Tearing it down is the main objective. This could be done on a shop floor. Not ideal, no. Yet the lights do come on and the gaps are closed as a person learns the hows and the whys of the entire engine.

 

I did something similar. The end goal was not to rebuild the engine. It was to learn. I did purchase a micrometer set and a dial bore gauge. I aIready owned a dial indicator tool. I learned a ton. Now I can pretty-well blue print an engine, any time I want. The engine I tore apart is tucked away in the corner of my shop if I ever need a spare 25" long block.  I gained the skills and confidence I wanted to actually rebuild the engine in my 1938 Plymouth. I am in the middle of it right now. I will rebuild the engine myself. Although the machine shop did all the machining work, exactly as I instructed, I will be measuring up everything again before re-assembly. To ensure everything is correct. I built a con-rod vise. I'll set my own ring gap and measure my bearing tolerances. The experience has been fantastic.

 

I do recommend at a minimum, buying an engine stand.  Chris you should be able to get something decent, used for $50 if you keep an eye out. This allows for a great working height. You can roll the engine around all directions as needed. It makes the entire experience much more enjoyable. Getting it up on the stand will be a PITA, without a hydraulic lift. I've seen people advertise hoists for rent for a day. Again on Facebook Marketplace. The hoist can go up in a truck bed, lay flat. Go there, get your engine.

Get it home, put it safely on the stand at home. Then return the hoist. Not sure if you are a member of any car clubs in your area. That's another good place to ask around about borrowing or renting a hoist. If you where nearby, I'd  let you use mine without hesitation. Only stipulation might be that I come with you to supervise. Lol. Well, help you out. It's fun.

 

I love my tools...Makes me grin ear to ear when I look at this photo. Members here get it. Most average people probably think we're weird, odd ducks.

 

IMG_9032.JPG

Edited by keithb7
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I agree @keithb7the tools are nice to have. When I picked up a spare engine to mess with, They loaded it in the back of my truck with a fork lift.

I had no way to remove it myself. So it sat in the back of my truck for a few days until I figured out a plan to unload it.

 

In other words, I had a good deal on a engine I wanted, so I picked it up and figured out the details later  :D

 

I did have a chain hoist I bought used for $50, but no place to hang it. I have a plan for a permanent place to install it in my work space on a rail so can move it as needed.

The shop cranes are a better deal if you have space for them .... My space is preciously small and the crane is not used enough to warrant storage space.

Although I did build the lil barn this year to store garden tools and garage overflow, I may get a crane later ... store out back and drive to it and load up then haul around to front of house ... a pain but doable when needed.

 

@ChrisMinelliIf it is a good deal for old iron, sometimes you just have to jump on it when the opportunity arises. Figure out the details later.

Someone here will have a idea how to unload it .... you have a tree in the back yard :D

Maybe hire a tow truck to go pick it up and deliver it?  There are many ways to do something.

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For moving blocks off of the back of a truck, I sometimes use my pump tables. A couple of guys can slide engines off if you have cardboard under them. I then mount the head of the engine stand on the block, level the pump table to the stand and slide it in. I then just lower the stand away.

 

Speaking of stand, I had my shop jet cut a 1/2 thick steel plate to match the rear of the block. I will weld it to the head. Then I can use six bolts to hold the block. Even with the little pipe arms, I cannot get things like the core plugs in when attached.  I do that work before or after it is on the stand.

 

I should have it done in a couple more weeks. I will post photos.

 

James

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Another alternative that works real well too. 

 

In a garage with exposed roof joists one time I made it work. I got about a 1.5" solid steel round bar. About 3 feet long. I used built wood supports and drilled through them with a 1.5" hole saw. I used bolts to anchor it all to the supports across 3 joists. This spread the load. I made sure I was closer to the edge of the wall to support it even more. 

 

I found an old photo here. Showing the entire set up. These 1T or so lever/chain hoists work very well.  Seen here I am installing a watercraft engine. Later I used the same set up to pick up a fully dressed Honda Prelude straight 4 engine. This is not ideal, I cannot calculate the math to reach the destruction point.  If you stripped down the L6 engine a bit I'm pretty confident you could use a similar set up. My joists were 2x16 or so. You can see I double strapped the treated wood to support the round bar.

 

Remove the head, waterpump, starter, bell housing flywheel, both manifolds and carb ect...You'd be fine. I cannot recommend this setup with a fully dressed L6 engine. Nor with less support structure for the hoist. User beware. 

 

 

Hoist.jpg

Edited by keithb7
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Make sure to use Grade 8 bolts. 

 

In my FIL's old shop. He had bolted a section of 4" channel on both sides of the bottom chord of a truss and had another piece of 4" channel from there to the floor on each side that he could remove when not in use. He always used a coffing hoist. Not fancy but it got the job done good as a stout tree limb.. ?

Edited by MackTheFinger
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Hmm, you guys are scaring the poop out of me.  I decided to do a search for engine stands that aren’t Harbor Freight and all the ones available seem to be of the same design and hardware, only different colors.  I am guessing that they are all made by the same firm in China.  
 

Those stands are probably ok for a modern aluminum engine but I have a small daughter and can’t risk a collapse in our garage. 
 

I should have thought this through.  It was a good deal.  The engine crushed the harbor freight furniture dollies I put under it (good idea above, it doesn’t work though in practice FYI).  Now the engine is wedged in my U Haul and I need to return it tomorrow afternoon. 

 

I think my next move is going to be to buy a Harbor Freight shop crane and get it out of the trailer.  I’ll just have to put it on the ground in the alley until I can figure out what to do with it.  At least it’s too heavy to steal.  
 

Maybe I’ll make a custom wood stand for it when lumber goes down in price. 
 

 

 

 

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put it in an alley in this town and the metal collectors will have it and gone especially with the higher prices paid for recycle metal today...we have folks that cruise for scrap metal and snarf it all.   Once they took my yard art out of the west orchard....a kids rusty bike against the tree, I call it The Last Ride....tat the prices of steel that period of time....they may have gotten 40-45 cents for their effort.?

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Late to the game here, but speaking of trusses, my Dad's shop was 24' wide, and we pulled all sorts of engines (including a 394 Oldsmobile, probably the biggest) using a driveshaft laying in the cradle of three trusses, then running a chain around the driveshaft and the center truss.  I lifted my entire P15 body off of the frame by using two setups like this, front & back.  (The first time with the doors still on, and again later after they were off.)  But this garage was built back in around 1967, and I suspect that the quality of wood used in truss construction was better back then. 

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