Windows 10

[Eneto-55]

Windows 10 on the chopping block...

 

They said it was going to be the "last Windows"....  Ha. Ha....

[Plymouthy Adams]

as if they not app'ing you to death already....taking full control and not allowing you to tailor the software....last good system....Win7

 

I would not have an Mac if you gave it to me....so we either pass or play....

[maddmaxx1949]

28 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

as if they not app'ing you to death already....taking full control and not allowing you to tailor the software....last good system....Win7

 

I would not have an Mac if you gave it to me....so we either pass or play....

 

I'm definitely moving to Linux after this year software compatibility be darned. Can no longer skirt around their godforsaken updates and am tired of having them crammed down my throat. Between windows and Dell not allowing you to tailor to your needs, I'm fed up.

 

Edit: I'd take windows 7 or XP for reliability and user friendly interface any day of the year over the dumpster fire that has been windows 10.

Edited June 15, 2021 by maddmaxx1949

[Sniper]

My garage laptop is running XP, my in house laptop is running 7, my work laptop is running 10.

 

10 sux.  Now they are ending support for Office 2010 and want me to pay for a subscription based "upgrade".

 

Never.

 

 

[maddmaxx1949]

12 minutes ago, Sniper said:

My garage laptop is running XP, my in house laptop is running 7, my work laptop is running 10.

 

10 sux.  Now they are ending support for Office 2010 and want me to pay for a subscription based "upgrade".

 

Never.

 

 

 

Oh yeah. Office 365 is one of the biggest scams going around. Like, you're telling me a company as big as windows can't provide a basic word processor + Excel as a one time thing? Now they have to leech money off of you every month...you've got to be kidding. But until enough people get fed up and it start to damage their pocketbooks, I suspect nothing's going to change.

 

[DJ194950]

Windows 10 is not the problem- Microsoft however with endless updates ( most are not at all security related)  and programs almost no one wants however  IS - never ending story.

 

Have seen some alternatives( internet search only) that are widows 10 like but are not Microsoft.- anyone tried one of these??

 

DJ

[maddmaxx1949]

[P15-D24]

16 minutes ago, maddmaxx1949 said:

FYI Mac updates have been free since 2013, so yeah more cool free stuff.

[P15-D24]

Looks like most of the "new" Windows stuff is user interface stuff, like rounded corners on forms. Also known as lipstick on a pig.

[Sniper]

1 minute ago, P15-D24 said:

Looks like most of the "new" Windows stuff is user interface stuff, like rounded corners on forms. Also known as lipstick on a pig.

Don't forget renaming stuff and moving the buttons around so you can't find them. 

[Eneto-55]

I am self employed, and I build computers.  Now, of course, I'm forced to build Windows 10 systems.  (No current hardware even supports Win 7 anymore.)  But I don't use OS 10 myself.  This computer is running Win 7, and I have an old Dell running XP across the room.  I usually have both of them running all day long.  I do not plan to update to OS 10 for my personal use, or to anything they come up with in the future.  (Unless they manage to make the internet not work on these old systems anymore.)  Speaking of Microsoft Office, I bought a license for Word for Windows in 1995.  And it still works, at least in Win 7, AND, it does everything I need.  For the other stuff (spread sheets), I use LibreOffice (with OpenOffice on the old Dell, just because I haven't bothered to change it).  I also still have Word for DOS installed on my XP system, and there are certain things I like it for over Word for Windows.  I don't care for any of the Office products after the 2003 or 2007 version, I forget - whenever they abandoned the menu bar.

 

[P15-D24]

2 hours ago, Sniper said:

Don't forget renaming stuff and moving the buttons around so you can't find them. 

The worse is the Office ribbon. Every major version they move something. I use to be pretty proficient on Word 5 & 6, but now most of the time now is I know Word will do this but how. Lots of Google searches!  (Yes I had to use it in business for nearly 30 years and old habits die hard)

[Los_Control]

I am not pushing any operating system ... I personally been using linux for maybe 15 years. Same time I set up a computer for my wife and for her  I use windows 10 on it.

15 years ago she had win xp .... I remember using dos 6.2 & win 3.1 .... I stood in line for a hour to purchase win 98 on the day it was released.

 

Linux is very good, I would not use anything else myself.  About 6 months ago I tried a new flavor of linux. Took about 15-20 min to install on a completely empty hard drive.

Then it checked for updates, it ran for another 1/2 hour updating in the back ground while I was still using it. After 6 months it has worked flawlessly.

 

I build my own computers ... while last few years I just buy refurbished from ebay because lazy. They do come with win10 installed. I no longer feel the need to have the latest greatest hardware. I just erase the hard drive and install linux.

 

I do not run any anti virus, I install the programs I want to use on my computer. I tell my computer when to update, what to update & what to leave out & how much resources to use while updating.  I can visit the worse porn sites on the internet and my computer is not affected. I built this computer & I built the linux os it runs on ... It does what I tell it to do. If needed I can run older versions of programs to keep them working.  So is obvious I have issues with widows & it's terms of service .... Mac is ok, built off of a linux kernel and locked down so tight, then the free open source software is sold for a high price.

 

Linux is ok for most people, and just as easy to learn & use as windows.

 

[chrysler1941]

You guys should get a European version of Windows 10. I know it sounds weird but due to EU laws, big tech has less flexibility and many features are removable. Microsoft and Apple are constantly fined by EU for privacy intrusion. For example Edge is an option and can be uninstalled. Latest Google was fined $275 million for abusing online ads.

All Metro features are removable on all versions with powershell. If done correctly, you end up with a very stable windows looking like 7

My Apple tablet I'm forced to use at work needs an update once a month, so no difference. Linux is very stable and used in industry as redundant servers, but lacks behind in gadgets for private use.

 

Remember back when people survived without all these? ?

[Eneto-55]

I don't use any virus program, either.  I just never connect to the internet while in the Windows Administrator account - always use a non-admin account.  My XP system is not connected to the internet at all - hasn't been for somewhat over 10 or 12 years, so there it doesn't matter one way or the other.

 

If someone knows of a good accounting system for Linux, one that tracks inventory, etc., I'd sure like to hear about it.  But since I am building systems for businesses, they typically need to run all sorts of Windows programs, CAD programs, & accounting for sure.  I'm still using the build 2004 for OS 10 on the systems I sell, but the build 20H2 allows Edge to be blocked with a HASH rule in GroupPolicy (not in the Home edition).  Before that it had to be blocked through Registry modifications, and almost every new build changed the place where it had to be done (maybe I'm thinking of the Bing search on this one - I have pages & pages of written instructions I have complied).  I haven't looked at the latest updated version.  Most other built-in Apps can be removed through PowerShell commands, but it's definitely true that it is becoming increasingly invasive, and out of the control of the end user.  (I am building for Amish-owned businesses, so I need to be able to do a very robust lock-down, like absolutely no internet access, no user installations, etc.  It's required by their church conduct guidelines.)

We got our first computer in 84, a Kaypro II running the CP/M OS.  We were missionaries doing Bible translation, and the mission used Dek computers, so we learned that OS as well.  From there we went to DOS 3.3 and on from there.  The advantage of Windows that weaned me away from DOS 6.1 was being able to copy text from one program and paste it into another completely different file type.  In DOS, I had to save as a text file, then access that in the other program to copy in to the final destination.  But still much better that retyping everything.  I stuck with Word for DOS for Scripture translation, because the style sheet system made it really easy to do a widely spaced print out for making corrections while working in the village with the Indians (where there is not electricity).  Then to convert for publication we converted to straight text files with back slash codes - standard format markers.  There were programs that would convert the Word style codes to the back slash codes for conversion to the desired layout & formatting for smaller page size, etc.

But getting back on topic, I have never used Linux, but it sounds more & more appealing as Microsoft gets more & more invasive.  We now tolerate a lot of stuff that not that long ago would have created all sorts of references to Big Brother, and 1984 (the book).

[Pete]

I replaced MS Office with LibreOffice. It's free, it's good, and I've never looked back.

 

https://www.libreoffice.org/

 

A friend who worked as an engineer at MS told me the profit margin on Office was above 90%.

 

I just retired from a career in software development and support. I build my own computers which I've done since the early 1990s. I'm currently running Windows 10 on 5 computers and am not experiencing issues. (I know -- heresy.)

 

I highly recommend Bitdefender's antivirus and VPN. It's not cheap and it's not free, but it has great protection, even against ransomware.

 

Pete

 

[JBNeal]

I remember when that statement was made, and my marketing side said "yeah right, they'll just call it something else, say it's completely new, but it'll be mildly derivative of Windows 10."  I'm still hanging on to my 12yr old laptop running Windows 7, thought I was gonna have to retire it a few days ago when the wifi stopped working...it took a few days but the fix that worked was to disable the wifi driver, rebooted, a warning popped up that the driver was disabled, but it had connected faster than it had in a long while...I know I'm delaying the inevitable, but I'm prone to use things until they outlive their usefulness, like my 20 yr old QuadCab, 30 yr old John Deere 425, 44 yr old Maytag washer and dryer, 60+ yr old Emerson oscillating fan, 70+ yr old Pilot-House trucks...

[Plymouthy Adams]

I have one computer for off line stuff, mainly music ripping and scanning slides.....it is Window 7 and the last of the good computers on site.  Their constant updates and restarts always providing challenges to maintaining my files with 10.  My main computer went belly up else I would not have the unit I am on now...hated having to go to 10

[Eneto-55]

42 minutes ago, JBNeal said:

I remember when that statement was made, and my marketing side said "yeah right, they'll just call it something else, say it's completely new, but it'll be mildly derivative of Windows 10."  I'm still hanging on to my 12yr old laptop running Windows 7, thought I was gonna have to retire it a few days ago when the wifi stopped working...it took a few days but the fix that worked was to disable the wifi driver, rebooted, a warning popped up that the driver was disabled, but it had connected faster than it had in a long while...I know I'm delaying the inevitable, but I'm prone to use things until they outlive their usefulness, like my 20 yr old QuadCab, 30 yr old John Deere 425, 44 yr old Maytag washer and dryer, 60+ yr old Emerson oscillating fan, 70+ yr old Pilot-House trucks...

I have an old oscillating fan that is so old that I once saw one exactly like it in an episode of "Little House on the Prairie"  (during a visit to Minneapolis to see a doctor, as I recall).  A guy I was rooming with down in Dallas in 1983 gave it to me because he was getting married, and this fan was made before they started making people who thought it would work out to stick their fingers into the fan blade, so his future wife didn't want it in their home.  It doesn't have a date on it, but I suspect it's at least a 100 years old.

[Plymouthy Adams]

with the new cages to enclose the fan you now have a group that think its only use is to stand behind it repeating    "Luke, I am your father"

[HotRodTractor]

I'm more or less forced to use Windows 10 to natively use some of the software that I use on a daily basis (namely SolidWorks). I used Win7 right up until I couldn't any longer. We have been on Win10 here at the office for some time.... and honestly I am not noticing that big of a difference between it and Win7 - but its all corporate controlled. At home - I notice some differences, but not enough that it bothers me. I also have a lot of the crap turned off, that helps immensely. 

I've messed some with various flavors of Linux and I honestly could see myself using Linux Mint on a daily basis and be perfectly happy with it - if I didn't have to run SolidWorks through a virtual machine..... I know many people do, but it just seems like its an extra step and another layer of crap needed for an already bloated and resource hungry program. 

Whoever invented ribbon menus should be drug out back and shot. I turn them off it at all possible on software I used daily. I'll fumble with them if its a software that I rarely use. 

I'm honestly surprised at the number of people posting that build their own machines on here. I wouldn't have guessed that many did so. I built my first one in 1999 and have built all of my machines except one since that time. In fact I'm starting to think I need to go through the exercise again for a new CAD machine.... but I might just upgrade the graphics card (if I can actually find one to buy) and limp it along for a couple of more years and build one out more towards the end of Windows 10 and let that take me through the first 3 or 4 years of the new OS while they work out the bugs on the general population. 

[Pete]

"I'm honestly surprised at the number of people posting that build their own machines on here. I wouldn't have guessed that many did so."

 

Being a computer nerd and a Mopar nerd is not mutually exclusive...

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

 

 

Being a computer nerd and a Mopar nerd is not mutually exclusive...

 

complaining of poor service providers of each is however.....

[Los_Control]

2 hours ago, Eneto-55 said:

 

If someone knows of a good accounting system for Linux, one that tracks inventory, etc., I'd sure like to hear about it.

While I think they are out there, a quick google search the top 10 free versions ... then there is a list of paid versions. One was $3k 1 time payment, another was $45 a month & everything inbetween.

 If you have a customer base, you need to provide for them what they want .... often that is windows.

2 hours ago, Eneto-55 said:

I have never used Linux, but it sounds more & more appealing as Microsoft gets more & more invasive. 

@HotRodTractormentioned linux mint and it is nice. The machine I am on is using Manjaro linux. seriouslt you can go to distrowatch.com and see a list of top 100 linux distributions. There are many to choose from.

If you have a old pc sitting around not being used, you could install linux on it and see what you think as a experiment.  For example go to linuxmint.com and download the .iso Then you burn the image to a thumb drive or DVD. Then you boot the machine using the thumb drive you created. You will pretty much have a working linux system to try ... if you like what you see, there will be a install icon on the desktop, click it and follow the instructions, 15 min later will be rebooting on your hard drive.

 

Be forewarned, it is a bit of a rabbit hole. Like stepping up to a HUGE  all you can eat buffet & trying to decide what you want. You will try some things and think it is not very good, while others you will really like.

When you download the .iso, you will see different options. such as kde or Gnome which is the desktop environment. you choose which one to use, there are others ... kde looks like win7 and gnome looks like Mac. The truth is, windows looks like kde. kde is open source and free to use, windows while they do donate money for development, then take the main source code then have their software engineers further develop it to work for them and is locked down as closed source.

So choose kde if you are a windows user ... you want to play try gnome .... all  is free, just the time to download and create thumb drive.

 

Let me add you are a much better computer administrator then I. The things you do for the Amish I admire, I could not do that on windows.

I will not say it is dead simple on linux, pretty straightforward though. Get a terminal and usermod command would take care of most of it ... you can control the permissions the account has to use usb, cd, internet. Most administrators would want to install sudo, with that you can fine tune permissions for individual accounts. Nothing I use.

 

Again use what works for you .... linux works for me, windows works for my wife ..... even though today her computer habits I think I can build her a linux machine and be happy.

 

[kencombs]

OK, you guys have gotten my attention.  I have some old laptops and netbooks around.  I just charged up a Compaq netbook that I used to take on trips to keep up with email and forums.  Atom processor, 1.5 gig hard drive and 1 gig of memory loaded with XP.  The Firefox version on it won't connect with any of my normal sites now, only Microsoft.com.  that strikes me as weird.

 

Anyway that seems like a perfect Mint test bed, using the 'lightest' version, what do you Linux guys think?  Only thing that I saw that could be an issue was when I tried to set the boot order the USB port didn't show as an option, maybe because I had no  thumb drive in it?

Edited June 16, 2021 by kencombs