Sniper Posted June 5, 2021 Report Share Posted June 5, 2021 Well I am in the process of tearing down the 230 I bought for my EFI hot rod engine. I built the gantry crane to handle it, solo work mostly so it's easier for me to deal with than my 30 year old engine hoist. I picked up 4 lifting eyes to screw into the head bolt holes, seems I only needed one, center hole picks it up nice and level. The engine stand my neighbor gae me the day before, had to run to Ace to get mounting hardware and it only fits to the bellhousing pattern in one spot. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted June 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2021 In this picture we see the water distribution tube mostly plugged up with crud. Not to mention the large hole next to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted June 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2021 (edited) Here we see the tappet covers removed, actually it's really clean in there. Some stuck valves, I have all of them but one freed up. Going to have to pull the cam and lifter to run a dowel thru there to knock the valve out it appears. Still working on trying to get it free. Not in a super hurry so I have the time to fart about with it. Edited June 5, 2021 by Sniper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted June 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2021 In this shot the son is helping tear down the 230. All the parts taken off have been saved, for now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los_Control Posted June 5, 2021 Report Share Posted June 5, 2021 Just now, Sniper said: In this picture we see the water distribution tube mostly plugged up with crud. Not to mention the large hole next to it. This photo right here tells the story. I think it is a common story on these old flatheads. I know my T-stat housing had broken bolts on the housing ... Mine was the same, just it sat for 20 years before I bought it & looked at it. Exactly what I did, take a rod and a 3# sledge hammer & cleaned out a path, Then with all the soft plugs removed I ran water through it and cleaned the block with vinegar ... the thing ran cool at 160 without a T-stat ... for 2 hours ... was amazing when it sat idle for 2 hours, it would creep up to 190, raise the throttle and dropped right back to 160. Point is, if that motor was installed in my truck ... I would hit it and clean it. Since it is on @sniper engine stand. I would clean the middle just so the outside edges have a place to collapse wile pulling out ... Hell yah I would run that engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrysler1941 Posted June 6, 2021 Report Share Posted June 6, 2021 Two bolts holding the water pump are original MoPar post war type. Nothing you can buy today is of better quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted July 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) More progress today, of a sort. Started taking out the valve train. Had a couple sticky valves that repeated applications of many different penetrating oils didn't affect. Started at the front of the block, working aft. Got to valve 7, of 12, when I dropped a valve keeper. Heard it hit sheet metal, didn't see it. I do have a sheet metal drip pan under the engine, no it didn't land there. So, I drop the oil pan, which was on the list of things to do, but not right now. Such is fate. Keeper is in the pan. I see some minor sludge in the pan and run my fingers through to see what there is to see. I found Blackbeard's treasure. Edited July 1, 2021 by Sniper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted July 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 Inside the block is nice and clean. Oil pan didn't really have much sludge, more like thick oil that would have drained if the engine was hot. The oil pan pic I took is blurry, so no pan shot for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted July 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 Here's a shot of the oil pick up. Pretty clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted July 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 Shot of the number 6 cylinder. Nothing catches my finger nail, heck there is virtually no ridge at the top of any cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted July 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 So I pull the rod cap, taking care to not lose the lock washers, The Freewheeling Tony Smith says they are very hard to find. Not the worst bearing I have ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted July 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) backside of the rod bearing. .001 undersize, hmm. No date code I recognize. Edited July 1, 2021 by Sniper had to reload pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted July 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 So I decided to pull a main cap to see what those bearings looked like. Not bad, not sure why the bearing color is black though, both rod and main that I checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted July 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 So I pull the bearing from the cap to look for sizing and date codes. You know I do have 13 letters in my last name. What the heck is a brass shim doing under the insert? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted July 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 Well, no info on the main bearing that I understand. I assume, for now, that is is standard size, but the shim?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithb7 Posted July 1, 2021 Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 On 6/5/2021 at 11:12 PM, chrysler1941 said: Two bolts holding the water pump are original MoPar post war type. Nothing you can buy today is of better quality. I have a good supply of old Mopar hardware. I salvage all I can. Nuts, bolts, washers, springs, clips. Everything. I have them separated into divided bins by size. Excellent quality. As mentioned you may not readily find better today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted July 1, 2021 Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Sniper said: Well, no info on the main bearing that I understand. I assume, for now, that is is standard size, but the shim?? The shim is a hack clearance fix...but done back in the day. Mother MoPar in the books says do not shim flathead bearing inserts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJK Posted July 1, 2021 Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 8 hours ago, Sniper said: backside of the rod bearing. .001 undersize, hmm. No date code I recognize. I have a set of TRW .002 under rod bearings if you could use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted July 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 8 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said: The shim is a hack clearance fix...but done back in the day. Mother MoPar in the books says do not shim flathead bearing inserts. I was thinking something like that. If you've ever seen on one of my posts when hackery is involved you know my feelings on that. Well at least it wasn't a piece of someone's belt instead of a shim. Now the question is, how does it get fixed properly? Is the main bearing bore way oversized? Was someone too cheap or couldn't find an OS bearing? Is an align home in my future? A new block? Inquiring minds want to know, lol. The tear down will continue. Sad too because the rest of the engine looks real clean and nice, well the inside anyway. Oh one other thing, it has a rear main seal I have never seen before. Not a rope seal, not a bolt on seal. Looks like a Best Gasket 3675. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kencombs Posted July 1, 2021 Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 Mic the shim as it may well be a tapered fit. Those were sold back in the day to be used with off the shelf inserts on a worn, but round crank journal. Thicker in the middle. Thinner on the ends. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los_Control Posted July 1, 2021 Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 10 hours ago, Sniper said: What the heck is a brass shim doing under the insert? Years ago my buddy used a beer can to shim his bearing. 57 cheby with the 216 engine. Ran fine for years afterwards. Brass seems like a better option .... I have doubts it is oem. Looks like true hackery at it's finest to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veemoney Posted July 1, 2021 Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 More to measure before understanding the why of the shim placement. I have seem shims used under the bearing and at the split of the caps. I think the practice was used back in the day to make use of what was available. Today we can find parts on the internet and have them shipped overnight to get things running. Back in those days it was not so. Folks needed the auto to make a living and couldn't wait 2 weeks or more to get the right size bearings so a practice born out of desperation in some cases. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithb7 Posted July 1, 2021 Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 Help me understand this shim thing....So a crank main journal may be worn .003 or so. Bearing may be knocking. Oil pressure down etc. Yet for some reason someone does want to pull crank and turn it down to .010 and buy new correct sized bearings. So they stick a 0.003 shim up behind the bearing. Maybe use a new stock size bearing again. Torque everything down? Cause the bearing to deflect in the bore and re-shape itself to the main journal? That really sounds like a recipe for disaster. Low speed cruising around town maybe ok for years. Extended hi-way travel? Sounds like a hail-mary fix to me. Is it odd that only one cap would have this. Dirty oil, lack of maintenance, sludge build up would likely affect all mains and rods. No? Maybe the port that feeds that particular main bearing was sludged up bad. Worse than all the others. I think an align bore would likely fix up all the main caps. Mill 'em down. Then bore everything back to straight, thru the mains. Would this move the crank up to the center of the block .002 or so? Whatever was milled off. Lowering your compression ratio a teeny amount? Mill your head and split the difference! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted July 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, keithb7 said: Is it odd that only one cap would have this. Well, I only took on cap off. The others may be this way too. I haven't gotten it tore down completely, I was just curious as to the sizing of the main bearings after looking at the rod bearing. Anyone know if factory bearings are stamped DCPD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los_Control Posted July 1, 2021 Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 Just now, keithb7 said: Yet for some reason someone does want to pull crank and turn it down to .010 and buy new correct sized bearings. So they stick a 0.003 shim up behind the bearing. I told this story before, I was 16 or 17 and working at a tire store in Las Vegas, had my own trailer in a trailer park and a neighbor we worked together at the shop. We rode to work together. I was young and stupid then He was a biker, 1966 shovel head and looked the part. His wife was drunk & pissed one day and told me the story. They lived in southern California, he rode his motorcycle to the bars and claimed he was a Hells Angel member ... HA heard about this and gave him exactly 24 hours to get out of the state of California. He had a pretty cool 1957 1/2 ton chevy with a factory automatic transmission and a bad rod bearing. He bought a new bearing, replaced it and shimmed it while cleaning up the crank ... loaded his motorcycle, wife and whatever they could fit in a trailer and left the state. Within 24 hours. I just like the story because the guy is a idiot and did idiot things. I have a special place in my heart for the truck. Last I heard he loaded the trailer and went back to Maryland from Nevada. Made it as far as West Virginia and the rear end went out ... shimmed up motor was still running fine. I can imagine how many farmers or people during the depression when they were making the doodle bugs out of trucks to farm the land.... they did what they had to. Was it the best idea? To be honest I want to say a dang good idea. Why do expensive time consuming machine work, when you can get another few years out of a cheap fix overnight and have the engine running & back to work the next day. Also at this time, probably cheaper to buy a complete running used engine then to restore a old one. Today we would frown on this as we are trying to restore them ... back then it was just a way to get further down the road. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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