Carter B&B: The worst carburetor ever made?! Discuss...

[wagoneer]

I had a very interesting conversation with a carburetor repair expert today. I shall not mention their name/shop, but they are legit.

 

He told me that, in his opinion, the Carter BB-1 is the worst carburetor ever designed, and that he wouldn't even try to rebuild it, but throw it out and replace it with the Stromberg version that's on the straight-8. 

 

His stated reasons include that the Ball brothers that built it designed it originally for Chrysler, and later went to work for Chrysler did a poor job designing it. One point that was brought up was the accelerator pump never really worked properly on the car. He didn't go into many other details, but my interest was piqued. This person undoubtedly has worked on hundreds, if not thousands, of carburetors new and very old, and thus, I would assume, must have very good relative perspective and insight across historic and modern carburetors.

 

 

I myself have done a lot of reading on how the B&B works, but I don't have relative experience across other carburetors, and I'm about to rebuild mine to learn about it. 

 

That all said and couched properly, what do others on this forum think? It was a rather provocative statement, but I'm curious for the merits and demerits to be discussed.

 

 

 

[plymouthcranbrook]

You must have been talking to Jon from The Carburetor Shop.   I had a couple of conversations with him about the B&B and that was his opinion.  Mine on my 52 Plymouth was worn out and rather than go through the trouble of getting another one that might or might not be better I went with the 32/36 2 BBl option kit from Langdons Stovebolt.  The difference was dramatic.  I redid my B&B a couple of times and it helped but it never really did run well.. This is what I installed

 

http://www.langdonsstovebolt.com/store/#!/NEW-Manual-Choke-32-36-Carburetor/p/15456407/category=18665965

Edited February 9, 2021 by plymouthcranbrook

[maok]

19 minutes ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

You must have been talking to Jon from The Carburetor Shop.   I had a couple of conversations with him about the B&B and that was his opinion.  Mine on my 52 Plymouth was worn out and rather than go through the trouble of getting another one that might or might not be better I went with the 32/36 2 BBl option kit from Langdons Stovebolt.  The difference was dramatic.  I redid my B&B a couple of times and it helped but it never really did run well.. This is what I installed

 

http://www.langdonsstovebolt.com/store/#!/NEW-Manual-Choke-32-36-Carburetor/p/15456407/category=18665965

I've done the same conversion on my '37 Dodge (218)& 37 Airstream (242) after some re-jetting and tuning, much better setup.

[plyroadking]

I've been pretty happy with the b&b except for the excessive wear on the butterfly shaft and housings after 80 years. They're simple to rebuild and seem to be a set and forget carb. I stumbled upon a '55 dodge factory 2 barrel intake and carb several years ago. More carb means more hp right!? So I slapped it on my '55 ply 230 in my '40 Plymouth. I didn't notice enough difference to write home about except that it'd finally idle at a really low rpm because I wasn't sucking air in around my worn out butterfly shaft. I found a nos '40s b&b a couple years ago and will swap it and manifold back on next time I'm feeling ambitious. 

[Sniper]

The B&B isn't perfect, but neither is the Stromberg.  Compared to the carbs available when the B&B was first released it was a monster hit.  People were retrofitting B&B's to replace other brands carbs.  So much so that Carter started selling them aftermarket to accommodate the demand.

 

Compared to today though, all carbs are dinosaurs.  I guess it's all your frame of reference.

[Loren]

My all time favorite carburetor for just about anything is a Bendix-Stromberg WW.

Plymouth put them on a two barrel manifold on the 54 and got 7 more hp.

They are bigger and more refined than a 97 but use the same jets and some small parts and are not as tall.

Some of the folks here have that manifold and carburetor and no one has anything bad to say about them.

I've bought several brand new on eBay and pay about $150 for them.

So you pays your money and takes your choice.

 

[47 dodge 1.5 ton]

I am adding the second one to my truck as we speak! I’ll take any of the “throw away” B & B’s you guys may have.. lol

[JBNeal]

Ball & Ball carbs are OK and a nice bulky novelty, but them Stromberg WWs really breathe...one of my projects will be getting this upgrade to get that extra hp ?

[wagoneer]

For those who may have replaced their B&B on a fluid drive vehicle, how did you, or did you not, compensate for the electronic dashpot, and kickdown. I'm guessing you also did away with the Sission automatic choke? 

 

Maybe the upgrade is to go the i8 stromberg to keep the functionality, while getting better air. 

[HotRodTractor]

I'm a firm believer that B&B carbs get a bad reputation because of the wide variation that exists in their options. There are a wide range of body and jet configurations that have great impact on how each one behaves. Add in a few decades of mixing and matching parts and I would be willing to bet that a decent percentage of them are actually mutts. When you get a Stromberg 97 - that is what it is. I'm guessing the Stromberg WW has a little more variation than that, but I would bet its no where near the variation found with the B&B carbs. 

I'm not saying they are the best carb, but they are definitely not a bad carb. Like anything else they need setup appropriately for the application. 

[Sniper]

43 minutes ago, JBNeal said:

Ball & Ball carbs are OK and a nice bulky novelty, but them Stromberg WWs really breathe...one of my projects will be getting this upgrade to get that extra hp ?

 Well, comparing any 2bbl to a 1bbl you could say that.

 

I've got dual Weber IDA based 42mm TBI throttle bodies sitting an a Thickstun intake that'll likely out breathe a WW as well, but apples and oranges. 

[Worden18]

My Meadowbrook had a Stromberg on it.... believe it was not original.  Ended up going with the 32/36 from Landon's as well.  Haven't looked back.

[plymouthcranbrook]

I didn't change anything on the 2bbl I installed from Langdon's. Runs just fine as is.  Maybe have 100 HP now?

[knuckleharley]

11 hours ago, 47 dodge 1.5 ton said:

I am adding the second one to my truck as we speak! I’ll take any of the “throw away” B & B’s you guys may have.. lol

Is that one of the factory 2x1 intake setups,you lucky,lucky boy?

[Dan Hiebert]

For someone who rebuilds anything for a living, the more work you have to do on a particular brand or model, the worse your opinion will be of it.  Doesn't mean its a bad product.  Although I have no idea if it is original to the car or not, we've had the same B&B in our D24 since we've owned it.  The only things I've done to it in at least 25 years are external cleaning, lubrication where called for, and tweaking as necessary when doing tune-ups, although the tweaking always ends up putting it back where it was before I started tweaking.  Absolutely no problems with it.  Might the car run better with something else in it?  Probably.  But it runs good as is, and that's what I care about.    

[knuckleharley]

25 minutes ago, Dan Hiebert said:

For someone who rebuilds anything for a living, the more work you have to do on a particular brand or model, the worse your opinion will be of it.  Doesn't mean its a bad product.  Although I have no idea if it is original to the car or not, we've had the same B&B in our D24 since we've owned it.  The only things I've done to it in at least 25 years are external cleaning, lubrication where called for, and tweaking as necessary when doing tune-ups, although the tweaking always ends up putting it back where it was before I started tweaking.  Absolutely no problems with it.  Might the car run better with something else in it?  Probably.  But it runs good as is, and that's what I care about.    

If it ain't broke,don't fix it.

[Young Ed]

14 hours ago, plyroadking said:

I've been pretty happy with the b&b except for the excessive wear on the butterfly shaft and housings after 80 years. They're simple to rebuild and seem to be a set and forget carb. I stumbled upon a '55 dodge factory 2 barrel intake and carb several years ago. More carb means more hp right!? So I slapped it on my '55 ply 230 in my '40 Plymouth. I didn't notice enough difference to write home about except that it'd finally idle at a really low rpm because I wasn't sucking air in around my worn out butterfly shaft. I found a nos '40s b&b a couple years ago and will swap it and manifold back on next time I'm feeling ambitious. 

This is why I've been learning how to put bushings in them to tighten up that throttle shaft. Now if you want to send that 2bbl intake north a little.....

[tanner]

My 46 sat for 14 years before I bought it so a carb rebuild was near the top of the list.  Simple rebuild for an uncomplicated carb.  I'm a reliability guy over perfection.  My car starts easy, idles well, and responds to acceleration.  I have no issue with the Carter BB.  As difficult as it to do sometimes, I try to live by "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

[greg g]

Mine have béen install, set and forget for 50k miles.  No complaints.

[47 dodge 1.5 ton]

2 hours ago, knuckleharley said:

Is that one of the factory 2x1 intake setups,you lucky,lucky boy?

Yes, for the 25” motor. Picture was a mock up. Just had them bead blasted and installing this evening. I am choosing to use Langdon’s Headers over the factory exhaust for now and see how this works out.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Never have had any issues with any the B&B carbs on any of my 1948 - 53 MoPar cars and trucks over the last 40 years. All work fine..have rebuilt them in the past...simple fast and easy.

Now as to the Stromberg Fluid Drive carbs...after many miles...they belong in the recycle bin. 

 

[knuckleharley]

44 minutes ago, 47 dodge 1.5 ton said:

Yes, for the 25” motor. Picture was a mock up. Just had them bead blasted and installing this evening. I am choosing to use Langdon’s Headers over the factory exhaust for now and see how this works out.

If you happen to have a set of the cast iron dual exhaust manifolds,I might be interested in buying them for either the 23 inch or the 25 inch engines. I plan on putting a 230 in my 33 Dodge 4dr,and a 251 DeSoto in my 42 Dodge coupe and I prefer cast iron over tube headers.

[Sniper]

If you can't find what you want elsewhere, Langdon's does sell cast iron dual exhaust manifolds for both blocks.  I have a set of them for my 230 build but have not as mush as bolted them up yet.  So that's all I know about that, lol.

 

I've included a link to his store, if nothing else it'll give you an idea of what you might be willing to spend.

 

http://www.langdonsstovebolt.com/store/

[knuckleharley]

11 minutes ago, Sniper said:

If you can't find what you want elsewhere, Langdon's does sell cast iron dual exhaust manifolds for both blocks.  I have a set of them for my 230 build but have not as mush as bolted them up yet.  So that's all I know about that, lol.

 

I've included a link to his store, if nothing else it'll give you an idea of what you might be willing to spend.

 

http://www.langdonsstovebolt.com/store/

Thanks! I knew they were selling cast iron duals,but the word "Stovebolt" that is alway connected to them threw me off enough I never bothered to check them out.

 

Wish they were a little cheaper,but Oh,well! 

 

Will be trying to fit a set into my budget in April.

 

Thanks again!

[47 dodge 1.5 ton]

Yes, I bought the cast iron manifold/ headers from Langdon’s and they fit well to the factory intake. Only down side so far is losing the fuel pump and I needed to make special tabs to hold the manifolds.  For now, I’m going to keep the factory split exhaust manifolds, may change my mind down the road.