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Fuel Question


rugbyjon112

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My limited knowledge (but plenty of reading) tells me ZSB had done a lot of research into valve life and how to make a long running engine while they had the use of the Willys dyno in New Jersey. Billy Durant bought the plant (and the first Chrysler car design) then hired them to design two more engines for his cars.

The results they came up with were the hard seats, the design of the valve guides, the placement of the water pump and the water distribution tube. ZSB arrived at these features by testing and science. Henry Ford on the other hand did things his way and fired anyone who contradicted him. He had to get senile for the Ford engineers to finally move the water pumps from the heads to the block (like ZSB did in the 1920s).

The features of the Mopar engines were arrived at from a completely different set of circumstances but they remain viable today because of sound engineering. What passes for gasoline is far different from one region to another and from one season to another for emissions considerations (by government diktat). Gasoline has evolved over time because of technology in refining and automotive needs (higher compression and later emissions).

The Mopar flatheads could probably run well on just about anything. If I were to offer my advice on fuel it would be to drain the tank if you're going to let one sit for any length of time. Gasoline becomes something else over time and it is not good.

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I run ethanol in mine with no additives. Loren is right though, these beasts will run on almost any thing. I used to work at a cycle shop that fixed ATV and Jetski's. Every spring the jetski owners would bring them in and say they weren't running right. Turns out they left the ethanol fuel in them all winter long (3-5 months). We'd drain the tanks of anywhere from 3-15 gallons of fuel. I would smell the gas and if it reeked I'd dump it. If it smelled off but still decent I would put in the P-15 and top off with gas at the station on he way home (most times). Because of the low compression that these engines were designed at, they would eat it up like candy. The only thing in these cars that don't like ethanol is the old rubber fuel lines and diaphram of the fuel pump. Make sure they are updated ethanol resistant rubber. I also used in my other vehicles at a ratio of 3-1 new to old gas. Never had a problem in over 4 years. Just don't let it set for over 3 months. Ethanol fuel goes bad quick.

 

Joe Lee

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9 hours ago, rugbyjon112 said:

I have a 1947 Plymouth P15 With the original untouched 218 “L” head engine. Will it cause any damage if I use non-ethanol fuel without using a lead additive?

Skip the lead additive and put Marvel Mystery Oil in each tank per directions with any gasoline blend...it'll keep the fuel pump and carburetor gum-free and well lubricated, making for quick startups that benefit the starter and battery life :cool:

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Safest bet for fuel is using an alcohol free premium like Shell vpower which contains none and keeps rubber parts sound. For storage every fall, I make sure that the last tank-full has "sta -bil" or "phase guard" added to the petrol to prevent breakdown over time (take the car for a drive after adding).  Moonshine gas as I call it, turns into varnish and separates when left in an unexercised fuel system during extended storage. It sorta is to the fuel system what cholesterol is to arteries! Alcohol also attracts water which is an undesirable component in any gas tank. Make sure that when you put your car away, you store it with a full tank to minimize moisture accumulation. If possible, start the old car once a month. Draining the tank if storage is prolonged is a wise bet as mentioned above and make sure no fuel sits from the line to the  carb bowl. Even though putting your ride away for the winter is not very fun, these simple steps will prevent any unnecessary cursing at the start of the next season. No problems with fuel delivery due to corrupt gas in decades keeping this in mind. M

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Ethanol free gas is not available in Massachusets so I have got in the habit of adding Startron fuel stabilizer to every tank of fuel.  I do not drive the car very much,  and I never know if the last tank full is going to be the one that will sit for winter.  I use the same treatment for my motorcycle, mower and snowblower.  After ten years of this regimen I have not had any problems with bad gas.

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Even though I'm fortunate to be able to drive my P15 during winter (not snowbound and it has a good heater) I still only put about 5 gallons in the tank at one time. That way the fuel in the tank is being "spiked" fairly frequently and stays relatively fresh.

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I fill up at the local Shell, lowest octane they have.  I drive until it needs more gas and refill the tank.  Which, btw, I really need to fix my fuel gauge as I ran out of gas at the post office today.  Right across the street from a gas station that sell ethanol free gas, $2.98 a gallon, sells propane grills, but does not sell gas can.  ???  No MMO, Sea Foam, stabil or the like.  But the key is that I drive it. 

 

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I’d like to chime in and say that like many before me,  I too was battling fuel related problems in my old flathead equipped car. I started only buying ethanol free gas. My annoying fuel related issues all disappeared. Never again, under my watch, will one of my old cars ever get ethanol blended fuel. Unless I have no choice. 

Edited by keithb7
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Keith, am interested in the fuel issues you experienced, I suspect it was some sort of vapor lock problem. I switched to non-contaminated gas for awhile thinking it might alleviate the fuel percolation that can occur in the carb while the car is parked after a highway run on a hot day. But I couldn't tell any difference so went back to the cheap stuff with no additives. It could be that the electric pump located near the tank is less likely to have vapor issues than the mechanical suction pump in the hot engine bay. But in any case glad you were able to find a solution to the fuel problem on your car.

Edited by Sam Buchanan
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@Sam Buchanan

 

On hot ambient temp days climbing the steep hill home. Occasional bucking while climbing hill home.  Throttle wide open, 3rd gear (1:1) for about a mile.  Speed about 30 MPH max.

 

Immediately after climbing the steep hill home, sometimes the engine would stall shortly after I got back on the level and let off the throttle.

 

Hard starting after a brief heat soak. Hot engine, Hot ambient day. Pull into a store parking lot. 10 mins later come back out and attempt to start engine. Hard starting.

 

Also some hard starting if shutting down a hot engine, after climbing hill home, and immediately attempting to re-start it.

 

All symptoms mysteriously gone after switching to non-ethanol fuel.

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Nice that Some of us on the forum have a non ethanol choice.

 

In Ca. there is None. ?

 

DJ

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I wonder if adding some type of snake oil fuel additive, could nullify the effects of ethanol? Anyone know? If so, what product? Any actual evidence or lab results? Thanks.

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1 hour ago, keithb7 said:

I wonder if adding some type of snake oil fuel additive, could nullify the effects of ethanol? Anyone know? If so, what product? Any actual evidence or lab results? Thanks.

When I mentioned Marvel Mystery Oil, it was because it works in many ways.  I have been using it since the 90s in flatheads, as well as lawn equipment that sits idle for days/weeks.  It stabilizes ethanol fuels, lubricates fuel pump and carburetor innards, reduces fouling in carburetor passages, fuel lines, and fuel bowls...this all leads to reduced starting times, putting less wear on batteries and starters, as well as immediate engine lubrication.  Engine idle is smooth year 'round, and startup after storage is much quicker than without MMO.  I used Stabil for years, but MMO can be bought by the gallon and not only used as a fuel treatment but as a potent penetrant on rusty fasteners, hinges, pivot points, etc.  The startup after long storage on MMO is shockingly shorter than with Stabil, last time I checked it was a 5 second crank after 2 months of storage with MMO vs about a minute with Stabil.  I also use MMO with each tank on the QuadCab, as well as the CaseIH, New Holland, and John Deere tractors, all running on diesel.  Some ppl think they can make their own mixture with acetone + ATF, but the MMO comes in a handy transparent red plastic gallon jug that can be reused or recycled.  From a chemical standpoint, I believe the light lubricants in MMO bond with the ethanol to form a different hydrocarbon that does not flash off readily, inherently maintaining the fuel's octane/cetane number...but that's just the word on the street :cool:

 

P.S.:  I purchase the smaller bottles of Marvel Mystery Oil as they are graduated for easier dispensing, and use them marked bottles for about a year or two, until the locking plastic cap starts to get difficult to remove.  The small bottles can be refilled with the gallon jug, which saves a few bucks annually.  I doctor gas cans and diesel storage as directed for bulk storage.  I even reused an empty Stabil graduated squeeze bottle to fill with MMO, and wrote the dosage amount on the bottle...this smaller bottle works great for the 1 gallon fuel can I use for mixed fuels for the chainsaw, weedeater, etc

 

Edited by JBNeal
revised information
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