ratbailey Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 (edited) Posted to wrong forum, working on getting it moved Hey All, I was crawling around under my '48 DeSoto, fluid drive with Tip Toe transmission, getting ready to pull the oil pan, and I had a look at the clutch housing pan for the first time. 1. As you can see in the first picture (edit: this is from directly underneath the pan) there's a hole that looks factory made, along with a nice sized chunk taken out. I can't find any pictures of this view of the clutch housing pan in the shop manual, or parts manual or online. So... -Is the factory hole originally supposed to be plugged with something? - Given all the ventilation holes around the pan, can I just devise a clever way to cover this up and be done, or am I shopping for a new clutch housing pan? 2. On the right hand side of the pan and clutch housing, seen below, there looks to be a machined surface, with four drilled and tapped holes, where something used to be mounted. Am I missing something important? I scoured both manuals, and can't come up with anything. 3. There appear to be 4 missing bolts, two right near each of the rubber clutch housing/transmission mounts, and two at the front, right behind the oil pan. Can anyone confirm that there should be bolts there? Again, manuals aren't clear about this. Ugh. Thanks... Art Edited January 21, 2021 by ratbailey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, ratbailey said: Hey All, I was crawling around under my '48 DeSoto, fluid drive with Tip Toe transmission, getting ready to pull the oil pan, and I had a look at the clutch housing pan for the first time. 1. As you can see in the first picture, there's a hole that looks factory made, along with a nice sized chunk taken out. I can't find any pictures of this view of the clutch housing pan in the shop manual, or parts manual or online. So... -Is the factory hole originally supposed to be plugged with something? - Given all the ventilation holes around the pan, can I just devise a clever way to cover this up and be done, or am I shopping for a new clutch housing pan? 2. On the right hand side of the pan and clutch housing, seen below, there looks to be a machined surface, with four drilled and tapped holes, where something used to be mounted. Am I missing something important? I scoured both manuals, and can't come up with anything. 3. There appear to be 4 missing bolts, two right near each of the rubber clutch housing/transmission mounts, and two at the front, right behind the oil pan. Can anyone confirm that there should be bolts there? Again, manuals aren't clear about this. Ugh. Thanks... Art I suspect the original hole is a drain hole so oil will leak out instead of saturating the clutch plate in case of a rear main leak. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratbailey Posted January 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 (edited) 14 hours ago, knuckleharley said: I suspect the original hole is a drain hole so oil will leak out instead of saturating the clutch plate in case of a rear main leak. That's sounds likely. But, I wonder if one of those screen plugs that you see all over the rest of the bell housing is supposed to be there, because otherwise, the parts inside are subjected to whatever junk the road tosses up at them. Edited January 19, 2021 by ratbailey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 I'll get ya pics tomorrow... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 Promised pic' of the plug in bottom of bell housing and side support bracket... Save the pic's if you need them as I have to delete them for posting more pics later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratbailey Posted January 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) Dodgeb4ya, thanks so much! So, looks like a removable plug that'll be easy to cobble up, but that bracket...yeesh. Crazy question, are the pics of the bracket out of the car reversed? Or, is there a bracket on the other side, too? I didn't notice one, but I haven't spent much time under the car yet. Hope I can find one, I'll hit up French Auto Parts, and one other I just found out about, Browne Auto Salvage. Knowing what I'm looking for and having pics is half the battle, really appreciate it. Gonna have to get to know some welders and fabricators in my area. Art Edited January 22, 2021 by ratbailey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 I don't know if they are still open but try Moores Auto salvage rapid city SD I've gotten plenty of good parts from the over the years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratbailey Posted January 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) Thanks, Frank. It's interesting---in the parts list book, there's a bracket shown, of stamped steel, not cast iron, and it isn't shown as being on both sides of the clutch pan, only on the left side. My book is from '49, I wonder if the cast part is earlier or later, or if there's even a reason they switched from one to the other. Either way, I could probably get away with fabbing something up out of steel, if I can't come up with an OEM replacement. Edited January 22, 2021 by ratbailey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 There are two FD bell housing to engine support brackets ..a left and right. Part # rt 667515 cast iron # Lt 667516 " " Above brackets used on Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler six 1937 thru 1952 Stamped steel brackets are used on 3 speed transmission cars..never on the heavy Simplimatic transDeSoto's. I'm guessing you have the M-5 Simplimatic with the FD coupling...not a 3 speed trans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratbailey Posted January 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 8 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said: There are two FD bell housing to engine support brackets ..a left and right. Part # rt 667515 cast iron # Lt 667516 " " Above brackets used on Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler six 1937 thru 1952 Stamped steel brackets are used on 3 speed transmission cars..never on the heavy Simplimatic transDeSoto's. I'm guessing you have the M-5 Simplimatic with the FD coupling...not a 3 speed trans. More helpful info, thanks. I've definitely got the Tip Toe shift transmission with fluid drive coupling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 I should have said Tip-Toe....1946-48..... Simpli-Matic....was the 1941-42 Transmission 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratbailey Posted January 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) Hey Folks. Today's mysteries--there's two holes in the upper bell housing, above where the brackets would mount. Anyone know what goes there? They're on both sides of the bell housing, mirror images of each other: Could it be the clutch housing shield? I don't have one, and there's one in the drawing in the parts book. The holes drawn in the illustration of it make it seem likely...it's the thing hovering between the fluid drive cover assembly and the bottom pan: Edit: now that I compare the holes in the two pics, it's not this cover. But, I still don't have one. Urgh. If it turns out to be the clutch housing shield that's missing, is it terrible if I pretend I didn't notice it missing, and leave it out? I imagine I'm going to have some trouble coming up with one, or I'm gonna have to get my sheet metal fabricating chops up. Last question: in the pic Dodgeb4ya sent of the brackets, it looks like they're mounted on studs to the engine. True? Thanks, Art Edited January 31, 2021 by ratbailey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 Those cast brackets are bolted on with four 3/8" X 16 NC bolts. My above pics show a sliver chrysler straight eight engine bell housing lower cover and bracket ... The green housing cover is all six cylinder FD cars. Proper for your car. Silver straight eight picture was to show bracket mounting. Yes there is that tin shield with the felt seal. You don't have to have it but I would want it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratbailey Posted January 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said: Yes there is that tin shield with the felt seal. You don't have to have it but I would want it. Thanks. But, does that shield bolt onto the spot in the pic of my bell housing? The holes in my bell housing are pointing in the opposite direction as the holes in the drawing of the shield. Edit: Ebay just coughed up a shield for me, almost can't believe it. Edited February 1, 2021 by ratbailey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 It does bolt onto the engine side of your bell housing as you have shown the rusty threaded holes. Make sure the tin dust shield is for a fluid drive setup. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 Maybe that eBay seller has the cast brackets too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratbailey Posted February 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dodgeb4ya said: Maybe that eBay seller has the cast brackets too? They're from a '49 Dodge Gyromatic, so the clutch pan housing cover is the same as yours and mine, but the brackets are a longer dimension from the engine holes to the clutch housing holes. It seems like I've got the brackets covered by either Moore's or French Lake---it's almost easier to get odd parts for a DeSoto than for my '01 Mazda MPV ? Edited February 1, 2021 by ratbailey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 Those cast brackets should be the same for all Dodge,DeSoto and Chrysler six cars. That's what the parts books say. The green housing cover I showed is off a 52 Dodge Coronet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratbailey Posted February 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) The guy says they look like these in the pic below, which are from a '49 Dodge (these are from another ad, not his), and not like the pics I sent him of yours. I measured the distance from the engine holes to where the first clutch cover bolt hole is on my DeSoto, and it's about 3 7/8", if I remember correctly, nowhere near the 5" on these things. So, I dunno...I'm gonna let it slide and keep hunting. Edited February 1, 2021 by ratbailey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 Go with your measurement. Yes....Those look too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 Tomorrow I am going to pull a bracket off a 1950 Chrysler and get the part # off of it. My 50 Chrysler six has the longer brackets on it. 1946-50 Chrysler eights use the shorter bracket #655396/655397 like I showed on the engine/ bell picture I first posted. They do not fit the sixes. I did not post a "six cylinder" engine bracket because I had none easy to post. Just eights to give you an idea of what kinda bracket mounts there. I will help you you be sure you getthe correct brackets! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcDeSoto Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 I also have a 48 DeSoto I am restoring and that drain plug on the bottom of the clutch housing is also for draining your fluid drive unit. I just drained mine because it has turned dark and is burned. I'm putting in the best replacement. Mobil Light Circulating Oil made for turbines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratbailey Posted February 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said: Tomorrow I am going to pull a bracket off a 1950 Chrysler and get the part # off of it. My 50 Chrysler six has the longer brackets on it. 1946-50 Chrysler eights use the shorter bracket #655396/655397 like I showed on the engine/ bell picture I first posted. They do not fit the sixes. I did not post a "six cylinder" engine bracket because I had none easy to post. Just eights to give you an idea of what kinda bracket mounts there. I will help you you be sure you getthe correct brackets! Thank you so much! This is a huge help. According to my Model Series S11 Desoto Parts Manual, the brackets are part numbers 6667515/667516, like you said. Maybe I should toss the pan back on the car, and measure again? I'm pretty sure I did it right, and ebay photo proportions can get funny, but that definitely looks like 5" between those holes on the ebay brackets. If I remember correctly, the holes for the bracket on the engine are located right above the oil pan, just like in your photo. The ones for the long brackets would have to be located considerably higher. Now I'm wondering if I have a different engine in there, instead of a 237? The story was that it was a rebuild, but they could've also tossed a whole other engine in there, too. That would explain why the original brackets weren't put back. Hmmmm. I'll see if I can figure out how to check the engine numbers. Edit: The numbers start with "S11", so there goes that theory. Edited February 1, 2021 by ratbailey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratbailey Posted February 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 5 hours ago, MarcDeSoto said: I also have a 48 DeSoto I am restoring and that drain plug on the bottom of the clutch housing is also for draining your fluid drive unit. I just drained mine because it has turned dark and is burned. I'm putting in the best replacement. Mobil Light Circulating Oil made for turbines. So, you have to keep bumping the starter until the drain plug lines up with that hole? Yikes. Do you have the 237 in yours? Do you recall if you have short or long brackets? Thanks, Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratbailey Posted February 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) Here's a pic of the threaded boss, located in the same place as yours, Dodgeb4ya, right above the edge of the oil pan. It's gotta be the short brackets. Edited February 1, 2021 by ratbailey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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