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replacement oil pump failures


DJK

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I'm in the process of getting ready to rebuild my 218 engine. It seems I read somewhere about failures on replacement pumps, did a search, can't find it. My oil pressure was always around 40#.  With engine apart, all bearings and journals look great. Do I reuse mine, rebuild it, replace it, asking for a friend????!!!!!

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I'm out of town and can't check, but I think the tolerances are in the repair manual.  In any case, if you were getting 40 lbs before you'll probably be fine reusing it.  If you start losing pressure, it's easy to access and replace later if need be.

 

_

 

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Been a few stories of new ones seizing up. I think I'd go new but check it carefully. I wonder if you could rig something to spin it a bit with a cordless drill ?

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13 minutes ago, Young Ed said:

Been a few stories of new ones seizing up. I think I'd go new but check it carefully. I wonder if you could rig something to spin it a bit with a cordless drill ?

It seems like it had to do with the shaft binding. Some were taking them apart prior to install and cleaning the shaft, but I can't find the reference. I may just use mine.

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I'd use your old one...it will not fail.

New chinese will.

I would not even take it apart unless sludgy.

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Definitely if the pump cover shows signs of leaking replace the oil pump cover gasket....a square profile rubber O- ring.

Don't let the outer rotor pump gear fall out. The smaller inner rotor gear cannot fall out.

The outer rotor gear needs to stay assembled exactly as is...meaning you could put the rotor gear in face up two ways.

Those two gears have a good wear in pattern ...you do not want to change it....otherwise possibly causing slightly lower oil pressure.

 

 

 

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Actually, I googled "dodge flathead oil pump rebuild kit" and found some good results on this site...the site search engine has trouble with words less than 4 letters, but google can make up the difference. 

 

True story:  I had been at one engineering job for not quite 3 months when I was tasked to design a specialized piece of equipment...I did a google search, sent out some emails, within an hour had a quote for the very piece of equipment that was needed for $5k, something that had been on the market for decades...the next day, I was tasked with cleaning the production area while in my office clothes, including making multiple trips to the dumpsters on a blazing August afternoon; the next week, I was formally threatened with termination for pointing out that some military hardware that was about to ship technically was not functional (they shipped it anyway and BOY HOWDY did we land in some hot water!); the next month, I was moved out of the engineering office into a storage room on the far side of the building "to improve efficiency"...about that time, while researching for another project, I found a project expense summary that laid out how management had spent $10k over 5 years trying to internally develop that piece of equipment that this dumb hick had found for half that cost, in about an hour--OOPS made some mighty important ppl get all butthurt vindictive after inadvertently exposing their glaring incompetence...so my google skillz can be simultaneously helpful and maddeningly problematic :rolleyes:

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Aw man I wish that was the case but there was all kinds of shenanigans that I was subjected to:  my new desk was from ikea that my keyboard and monitor barely fit; mgmt wanted me to go paperless but would not spring for a laptop or tablets, they just figured I could make mental notes; I had to scrounge around for pens to fill out official paperwork because mine were constantly disappearing from my remotely located desk; but the worst thing was my desk had to be against the wall with my back to the door, and at least once a week some impromptu meeting would assemble right behind me in that storage room, with the participants oblivious to my presence so that at least one guy's kiester would be brushing up on my shoulder...try problem-solving when ya got dude butt in stereo ?

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If I measured correctly, this should be the correct "O" ring for the oil pump cover.

Square-Profile Oil-Resistant Buna-N O-Rings

4061t116-@halfx_636993896957439551.png?v
 

With flat edges on all four sides, square-profile O-rings cover more surface than round-profile O-rings for a better seal in static applications, such as hose, pipe, and faucet connections. They’re made of Buna-N, which is resilient and offers excellent tear resistance. They resist hydraulic oils and motor oil.

Inch O-rings have a dash number and are sized to the SAE standard AS568.

3D CAD models availableFor technical drawings and 3-D models, click on a part number.

Inch
1170n11-1568216396-p9@halfx_637037952232
 
 
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Actual
             
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Number
ID OD ID OD Hardness Specifications
Met
Temperature
Range,
°F
Color Pkg.
Qty.
  Pkg.
Wd.: 3/32 Fractional (0.103" Actual)
                       
143 2 7/16 2 5/8 2.425" 2.631" Durometer 70A (Medium) ASTM D2000, SAE AS568, SAE J200 -30° to 212° Black 50 4061T189 $7.86
 
 
 
 
 
1 pack of 50 added to your order.
Ships today
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43 minutes ago, Jerry Roberts said:

I don't know if that will work or not . but see ebay number  273009564468

Makes you wonder how effective it will be????  States no cracks, somewhat pliable.

Edited by DJK
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On 1/13/2021 at 7:02 PM, Young Ed said:

Been a few stories of new ones seizing up. I think I'd go new but check it carefully. I wonder if you could rig something to spin it a bit with a cordless drill ?

I can attest to this, got a new oil pump, Melling M37, for my 230. Span just fine when in a oil bath to prime it and when turning under starter only, but the first time I fired the engine up it locked up and broke two teeth off.  Now I'm getting another new pump (Free this time, Yay...?) and get to clean out the oil pan completely to remove the broken metal so I can try firing it up again

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1 hour ago, JBNeal said:

YIKES...these disaster stories make me wonder if the orientation of the pump + the addition of the distributor amplifies something in these new oil pumps out of tolerance ?

The broken tooth sure sounds like gears made from powdered metal and not done well at all.  Lots of powdered metal parts are excellent, but QC and processes are important.

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That is a nasty event. I think the next engine...I will rebuild my old pumps, I have a few of them. A couple of things come to mind that I can do to improve them...

 

1. Bore the housing and press in some bronze bushings for the shaft to ride on.

2. Have the base of the gallery milled smooth and then take to my industrial hard chrome shop and have them plate that floor to bring it back and and it will also stay hard.

3. I could also have them harden gear, but I don't like the cam gear to be softer than the pump gear.

 

One thing I am going to do is to drill the block at the oil pump mount and port it out to a spin off filter at the frame rail. I have seen this and I have talked about it with Tony (Montana) and I like this idea. I also will keep the partial flow filter and hunt for one that has a very fine filter. I had read were Fram has tried to convince Chrysler to go with two filters to increase the longevity of the engines. One a normal filtration and full flow and the other a partial flow that was very fine. They even had engine data tests they ad done to show them. The idea was nixed due to engine manufacturing unit cost. 

 

James

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I talked to the Freewheeling Tony Smith about making an new cover plate for the end of the pump as the oil outlet and then only having to drill one hole in the block for the oil return.  He seemed to think that would work well.

 

As for the full time and bypass oil filtration scheme, when I worked on wind turbines that is exactly what we did there.  Full flow whenever the turbine was producing and bypass all the rest of the time.  We tested our gear oil annually and changed it every 5 years, unless testing saw something.  Seemed to work well.  I have thought some on how to do it in a car, but I could only come up with some electrically driven pump and I worried about the battery going flat real quick doing that or having two batteries, one dedicated to the pump the other acting as a normal car battery.  Only thing I could think of was a time limited run of the bypass filtration system.

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54 minutes ago, James_Douglas said:

That is a nasty event. I think the next engine...I will rebuild my old pumps, I have a few of them. A couple of things come to mind that I can do to improve them...

 

1. Bore the housing and press in some bronze bushings for the shaft to ride on.

2. Have the base of the gallery milled smooth and then take to my industrial hard chrome shop and have them plate that floor to bring it back and and it will also stay hard.

3. I could also have them harden gear, but I don't like the cam gear to be softer than the pump gear.

 

One thing I am going to do is to drill the block at the oil pump mount and port it out to a spin off filter at the frame rail. I have seen this and I have talked about it with Tony (Montana) and I like this idea. I also will keep the partial flow filter and hunt for one that has a very fine filter. I had read were Fram has tried to convince Chrysler to go with two filters to increase the longevity of the engines. One a normal filtration and full flow and the other a partial flow that was very fine. They even had engine data tests they ad done to show them. The idea was nixed due to engine manufacturing unit cost. 

 

James

Red part is standard configuration on almost all high quality diesel engines in trucks.  I've had a couple of Mitsubishi tilt-cab models with 4cyl turbo diesels.  Both were so equipped.  lots of oil capacity and two filters = longer engine life. 

 

My 230 that is going in my PU now has the full flow mod you described, at least the filter housing is mounted and the block bored and tapped.  working on the line layout.  I really want hard lines.

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