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Lift vs. Pit


Eneto-55

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What are the relative advantages you all would think of in regards to a lift vs a pit?  I imagine a good lift is well more than the cost of putting a pit into a new shop construction plan (especially if the building is on a grade, and a block wall will be required at the back side anyway).  Of course a lift requires higher ceiling.  A pit you have to crawl in & out of every time you need a different tool, unless you have a partner topside.  What other observations would you all make?

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16 minutes ago, Young Ed said:

Around here pits aren't code ...

That's interesting.  We live in an unincorporated village, and while I appreciated not being told so much what I can or cannot do, I DO see some others that NEED to be told...  ;)  

 

What is their logic?  The danger of someone driving into it?  On the other side, I've seen advertisements for some lifts that I would not feel comfortable going under, and some pictures of cars that were not correctly lifted, and fell off of the lift.

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Fumes and gases build up in a pit. CO2 is heavier than air and gas fumes can possible build up in a pit to create a potential explosion. I know of a few old mechanics that almost seen there end because of pits, for those very reasons.

 

For the home mechanic a lift is better than to pay for all the fancy venting for pit to be safe.

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Never liked working in a pit myself always had too much of standing in a grave feel to it and they always were damp and usually wet. I restored a 1970 Benwil 2 post lift that was rusting in a vacant lot I paid a little over scrap value for and it allows me to do anything to cars and light trucks. A lift also allows you to work at various heights which is handy for doing brakes or tire work. But if my choice was a pit or nothing I would go for the pit. Also using a 2 post lift has to be done correctly and carefully or you can drop a car, saw it happen a few times in my youth.

Here`s my nephew spraying Fluid Film under his car.

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/66jV3k7njSyZNuyYA

Edited by linus6948
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Around here, pits of some sort must be code, the oil change places have them.  But I suspect the code requires something a far cry from the pit my grandfather put in his garage.  His pit would be considered a confined space entry with all that entails for legal entry for a business.  The ones used at the oil change places are engineered to be safe for human occupancy and I suspect cost a lot more than a lift.  In fact those oil change place pits are more like a basement with holes in the ceiling to access the car above than the WWI style trench my grandfather's setup reminded me of.

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Thanks for all of the responses so far.  I hadn't thought of toxic fume accumulation.  But I would have an "egress door" to the outdoors, because I was also thinking of use as a downdraft ventilation system for use while painting.  (The back wall of the garage would be at least 4 feet up to floor level.)

 

What do you need for a lift, minimum 12' walls? 

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Lift is better and safer for you .  Easier to grab parts and tools as needed without climbing in and out.  Not to mention the potential for death from fumes in a pit.  12' min, but 14' ceilings are better.  As Ed said, around here pits are not legal for new construction.  Oil change places basically are a huge basement with holes between floors.

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Pits aren't allowed in Maine, either.  Unknown reasoning behind it, its been in place for a very long time.  It's an overarching State code.  Maine has a lot of unincorporated territory so there are State statutes and codes, as well as county ones, that apply to those townships.  Just saying because even though you live in an unincorporated area, there still may be statutes or codes that apply if you're concerned about that aspect.  Personally, I've used pits in the distant past, and don't like them very much, mostly same reasons as already noted.  If I had the choice, I'd go with a lift.  Maine has code for ceiling height/clearance over a lift, too, so your location may have already decided that for you.  

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We do not get any "guidance" regarding codes here at all - state electrical codes are in place, of course, but are not enforced after initial inspection.  (For instance, the previous owners of our house had later put in a gas furnace, and the unit sat right in front of the main breaker box/panel, with less than the required 36" of space.  But there were also places where there should have been junction boxes, but the connections were just in the open, and covered with nothing but electrical tape.  I have fixed a lot of this stuff myself, and added new circuits, etc, all w/o any requirement of electrical inspection or sign-off by a licensed electrician.)  Now sewer is another matter - it is very difficult to get approval for a new installation.  Some Amish have been jailed or fined for building outhouses.  (Only the strictest Amish groups do not use indoor plumbing.)

 

But in regards to a ceiling height of over 12', I don't know how that would look, considering that if I build it here in town, it will be an addition to the attached garage, not a separate shop.  I know what it's like to have my tools in a different location, because I have had them at a rented space for the past 10 years or so, and when I need to work on something here at home, I have to go after them.  Not real convenient.

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I added a lift bay to my original shop add to the house some 17 plus years ago...in the manner I did the attachment it is an extension of the original building and looks just like a split level building should.  the extra height of the additions breaks up the really long roof of the original structure.    There are 5 forum members in this picture....and......three spouses and Toto the Wondermutt

DSC_0004.JPG

Edited by Plymouthy Adams
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I would recommend going with a lift.  I believe you would pay a contractor more to excavate, form and pour what amounts to a long, narrow basement than the cost of a good lift.  I think you have better access to anything under the vehicle you want to reach with a lift than reaching over a pit wall.  A pit is a hole in the floor which is always there - makes the floor area less flexible in use than would be a lift that's more or less out of the way when not in use.  Finally, safety is a real concern, both for the potential fall hazard and collection of explosive fumes.

 

I built my three bay garage with a full attic - if I had it to do over again I'd build the attic floor with a hole in it so that a car on a lift would be at the attic floor level.

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5 minutes ago, Frank Elder said:

Depending how deep your garage floor is you might have to bore holes and put in footings to support your lift...I don't think 4-6 inches of cement will support it.


Each manufacturer has somewhat different wording - but if the concrete is good enough - it could be used if it was a minimum of 4" thick. Read the manuals - adhere to the guidelines. 

I bought my lift from Greg Smith Equipment - yes they are a reseller of Chinese made lifts. The only issue I have had in 14 years is a minor oil leak from a fitting coming loose.

Greg Smith Equipment

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1 hour ago, Frank Elder said:

Depending how deep your garage floor is you might have to bore holes and put in footings to support your lift...I don't think 4-6 inches of cement will support it.

Thanks.  Is there a standard placement for the posts, or does this vary from one to the other quite a bit?  (I guess I need to do some research on that, or decide before I build IF I will put in a lift, and if so, which one.  And maybe put in a covered 'trench' for electric, etc.)

I haven't run this past my wife yet, but would also like to have a small office in the back, for manuals & such like.  And since there is quite a slope to our yard at the end of the existing garage, I might want to make that a wood floor over a crawl space, which would be nearly as high as a pit already.  So maybe I'll do both.  The only extra cost would be the additional block walls around the pit area, and a cement floor.  No problem with drainage, as the yard continues to slope down behind that area.)

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4 post lift, free standing. I will never go back to working on a floor. 
11-1/2 foot walls, i put collar ties in and built a box to increase height to 13-1/2 feet. 
 

vaulted trusses would work too. 
i did some work in a shop that had a pit. Dank. Dungeon like. Water on floor,bad smell and it was the coldest place in the shop. I despised it. No lights no ventilation. Not for me. 
one shop had a pit,5 foot deep,10 feet by 12 feet wide. 
drive over pit onto steel ramps. 
stairs going up either side. It was well ventilated and bright as day. 

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1 hour ago, HotRodTractor said:


Each manufacturer has somewhat different wording - but if the concrete is good enough - it could be used if it was a minimum of 4" thick. Read the manuals - adhere to the guidelines. 

I bought my lift from Greg Smith Equipment - yes they are a reseller of Chinese made lifts. The only issue I have had in 14 years is a minor oil leak from a fitting coming loose.

Greg Smith Equipment

Thank you, I was trying to stay on the side of caution seeings a lift has never graced my garage.

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15 hours ago, Frank Elder said:

Depending how deep your garage floor is you might have to bore holes and put in footings to support your lift...I don't think 4-6 inches of cement will support it.

Actually depends on the TYPE of lift and the footprint it has on it's posts.   

 

For example: 

 

A 2 post lift will require more concrete to deal with the stresses since it will tend to want to wander if you don't have the vehicle sitting perfectly in regards to CG (off CG lifting is a WHOLE other ball of scary crap).  In my shop the PO put extra thick (over 4") concrete in the mounting area (I'm told), so far no issues.  <nervous laughing>

 

A 4 post lift with ~12" square bottom plates can basically go anywhere on a standard concrete slab with no issues.   This style basically mimics the weight distribution you see on a tire,  you don't worry about busting thru just driving in and around, do you?  With an extended plate on the bottom this will account for the added weight of the lift at each point of floor contact.  Many of these aren't even attached to the floor with bolts, but are moveable.  Likely a standard 4" concrete pad would have zero issues with this.

 

6" of concrete is LOTS of concrete...and VERY strong....4" isn't a slouch either.  All depends on what the instructions say for your lift.

 

As stated earlier I have seen many people put a gallery up in the rafters to account for the need for more height w/o affecting the overall wall height of the building.

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my 12K capacity lift from BendPak states 2500 test concrete at 4" as minimum thickness and after a 28 day curing time....and this is the HDO model with no front cross tie at the column as it is an open front walkthrough lift designed for front end alignments....it also has seriously heavy runways and supports two rolling jacks of 6K capacity each.  

Edited by Plymouthy Adams
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Hey P.A. how much overkill did you build in your floor? I just had a building put up, supposed to be a 6" floor but I wasn't there to see it so I don't know for sure that it's that thick everywhere. I would rather have done it all myself but I guess I have more money than time.. well, that and the fact that I'm learning my limitations..? The building was finished just before Christmas and I've only actually been in it twice.. I'm not going to use it until I can paint the floor. With no heat in the building that's gonna have to wait. I can see it pretty good from the house, though!! ?

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