ratbailey Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) When shopping for my project car, the things that the cars in my price range had in common was no title, and no keys. The car I settled on, a '47 Desoto Custom, had no title, but fortunately, an ignition key. There's plenty of other things to keep me busy with this beast, but I decided to do a little hunting on ebay for lock sets. For three locks and keys, it'd be around two hundred bucks. I hated the idea of chucking perfectly good locks, and cheap b______d that I am, I hated the thought of spending money. I decided to learn enough about pin tumbler locks to see if I could finagle a key for my existing locks. Youtube to the rescue (forgive the non-Mopar content): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icq_D0v8RF0 ...and a little pin tumbler theory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smIdInCQ-kU I pulled my doorlock, and popped off the cover like the guy in the video. Sure enough, 5 springs, and 5 pin tumblers. I took the springs and pins out carefully, and put them in a muffin tin, numbered 1-5. I wondered if maybe DeSoto had 5 standard sizes of pin sets, and maybe they mixed them around for different key codes. Well, it turned out that my lock was like a lame internet password...1, 4 and 5 matched the igniton key, and 2 and 3 were the wild card. I could have left it this way, but I'm a little obsessive. I tried every combo of the pins I had in positions 2 and 3. No dice. Then, I discovered that the pins from position 1 worked in position 2! That would at least give me 4 out of 5 tumblers. I had two sets of leftover pins that were longer than the ones in position one, so I went about shortening them to match pins #1 as well as I could, using a DMT diamond sharpening stone to remove material. I mic'ed the pins from position 1, held them in an engineer's vice, and slowly and carefully removed material from the points where they meet, and made them as close to the same size as tumbler pin 1 as I could. Very few strokes were necessary to remove a lot of material---the pins are soft brass. Success! My ignition key now opens the door, and I'll re-pin the trunk, driver's side door, and glove box to work on the ignition key, as well. Hopefully this helps out someone with a keyless car like me. Can't help you with the title, sorry. -Art Edited December 30, 2020 by ratbailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthcranbrook Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 That is interesting. I had keys but all locks were frozen. Kept spraying and spraying them and one freed up.. Locksmith for the other. Thanks for the info. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJK Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Or you could just eliminate some pins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratbailey Posted December 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, DJK said: Or you could just eliminate some pins. Right, that's what I did at first---I eliminated two of the five that kept the lock from turning, but I couldn't let myself leave it that way. I had even bought some brass rod from McMaster Carr to try to make pins from scratch, so I could have all five tumblers functioning, but I think I'm going to let it be, and move on to the mile-long grocery list of stuff to do in order to get this thing roadworthy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eneto-55 Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 I didn't get any keys at all with my 46 basket case I bought in 1980. I had a 72 Dodge Coronet, and since the key would fit in the lock, I rekeyed the Plymouth ignition to work with the same key. (I can't remember now if I filed some of the tumblers, or if I got more of them from other locks we had laying around.) Sold the Dodge in 84, and I sure thought that I would have kept a copy of the key, but can't find it now, all these years later. (The Plymouth has been in storage since 83, when I moved from Oklahoma to Ohio, then to Brazil until 2003. Only got the car moved here to Ohio in 2018.) But there are lots of other more important parts that were lost while the car was sitting in my Dad's shop, so I'll face the ignition issue again later. Now I just wish I had bought a bunch of key blanks back then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Well, I have an aftermarket ignition lock in my 51, the key is the same blank as used on my 65 Cuda, but it doesn't fit into any other lock on the 51. That is the only key I have for this car. Not sure I want to spend $200+ for all new locks though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintage6t Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 I've done the opposite. Measured the pins and hand filed a key blank to fit. Six of one half dozen of the other! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratbailey Posted December 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 12 minutes ago, vintage6t said: I've done the opposite. Measured the pins and hand filed a key blank to fit. Six of one half dozen of the other! I thought about that, but it seemed like it would take more of an artist's touch, and didn't think I could pull it off. I'm just a caveman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratbailey Posted December 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 24 minutes ago, Sniper said: Well, I have an aftermarket ignition lock in my 51, the key is the same blank as used on my 65 Cuda, but it doesn't fit into any other lock on the 51. That is the only key I have for this car. Not sure I want to spend $200+ for all new locks though. You might try what vintage6t suggests, get a bunch of keyblanks on ebay for your '51 lock (they're cheap), measure the pins with a vernier caliper, and go at it with a tiny file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eneto-55 Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 My Dad worked at various dealerships as a parts man from 56 until 91, and the last 23 years at an Olds dealership. He made so many keys over the years there that he could "read" the keycode just while someone was standing at the counter holding their car keys. He could then go to the key machine, punch in the code, and make a working key. I know that the common key machines don't work that way - they follow an existing key to make a copy. But the machine they had would make a key like an original, w/o any wear on it. (I suspect that the dealership kept a file with the key codes of all of the cars they had sold.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derbydad276 Posted December 31, 2020 Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 learned something today ... I'll just take the pins out of my cylinders... not like there are thousands of people walking around with pre 1960 mopar keys that can open my car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted December 31, 2020 Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, derbydad276 said: learned something today ... I'll just take the pins out of my cylinders... not like there are thousands of people walking around with pre 1960 mopar keys that can open my car No, but every flat tip screwdriver out there can. When I bought my 51 the ignition lock was like that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted January 1, 2021 Report Share Posted January 1, 2021 I believe your plan will work for everything but the glove box lock. Those take a smaller key. You might be able to get fancy and key a locking gas cap to match your glove box lock as my glove box key says gas on it.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratbailey Posted January 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Young Ed said: I believe your plan will work for everything but the glove box lock. Those take a smaller key. You might be able to get fancy and key a locking gas cap to match your glove box lock as my glove box key says gas on it.... It seems that my key fits the glove box lock ok--I haven't gotten deeper into it other than sticking it into the lock, so you may be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooljunkie Posted January 2, 2021 Report Share Posted January 2, 2021 On 12/30/2020 at 9:19 PM, derbydad276 said: learned something today ... I'll just take the pins out of my cylinders... not like there are thousands of people walking around with pre 1960 mopar keys that can open my car I pretty much had to destroy the door lock cylinder on my 51. Managed to save the housing, so no tumblers. I was happy the hole was filled. i could open the trunk of my 70 sport fury with a dime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyHarold Posted January 2, 2021 Report Share Posted January 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Tooljunkie said: i could open the trunk of my 70 sport fury with a dime. Years ago I heard someone else say they could open their trunk with a dime and couldn't wrap my head around how using a dime got around all the pins in the lock. Can you explain further? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooljunkie Posted January 2, 2021 Report Share Posted January 2, 2021 No pins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobT-47P15 Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 Back in the 1970s I was able to buy and sell some 50's Mopars I found in people's back yard, driveway, etc. Some were missing keys...so I just took the lock (or sometimes the car) to a certain old time locksmith. He would bring out his little "gun" feeler gauge .... "shoot" the lock to determine position of the tumblers....and make me a new key that worked correctly every time. But, in later years they banned those "guns" as the thieves could also produce a new key so they could steal your car. I don't know if a person can find one of those "guns" now, or not. A few years ago, I took a nice trunk handle that had no key to a locksmith who claimed he could make me a new key----but he apparently was not as good as he let on. The lock just barely worked....was hard to turn.....and seems like he messed up something else as well. The good news is I didn't really need that handle so it's in some box of stuff in the garage. I later discovered I could buy a brand new ignition tumbler with working pentastar key at O'Reilly Automotive for a very reasonable price.......fits right into the ignition switch housing. Currently I do not have any door locks on my P15 convertible.....although I do have a couple sets of used locks with keys purchased at swap meets. I put chrome "plugs" in the holes in the door. I figure that if you lock a convertible...and someone wants in badly enough, they will simply slash your convertible top. So......I hope they try the door first...... All the above information probably will not solve anyone's problem.....but there used to be solutions years ago. Maybe some exist today if you check around. Bob. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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