Santafeguy Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 I’m a bit new to the forum. Just put a rebuilt engine in my 48 Plymouth car. New clutch plate. The clutch will not disengage. All linkage reinstalled, 1 1/2” free play in pedal. I think I need to adjust the clutch release levers. I can’t see in the manuals, service manual or Motor’s Manual, what size feeler gauge to use between flywheel and the clutch disc. Any ideas ? Thanks in advance for your help. guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 If I am reading 5this correct you wish to know the feeler gauge thickness when checking a pressure disk. I do not think that is a set/given distance as much as using the proper jig(tool) and that the presets when established only state that the distance at the fingers all be equal, but you are right, the book did not spec a thickness. I have never messed with the fingers as I have never had access to a jig. The odds of these being altered or exceedingly out is slim unless you wrenched on them and just the install of new disc should not be cause to adjust the fingers. I would think something else is out of whack and first call would be inspect the clutch disc for a possible reversed install.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 (edited) Can you see the pressure plate pulling away from the clutch disc? Could the clutch disc have been put in backwards by mistake? This would cause the disc hub to bind against the flywheel. Edit: Looks like Tim and I had the same thoughts. Edited November 30, 2020 by Merle Coggins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santafeguy Posted November 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 Clutch disc is installed correctly. Center bulge towards the transmission. No, I have not wrenched on the adjusting nuts yet. Everything I have read leads me to believe once the release levers are adjusted at the factory, leave them alone. Transmission is out, and I can observe the throw out bearing push the clutch release levers. I will remove the pan assy to watch the pressure plate. I may pull the pressure plate and put the old clutch in. It measures .342-.346 thickness. Not sure what a new one measures. It is not worn out, I just opted to put a new one in. any other ideas ? guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 (edited) the disc would have to be quite thick to alter this in the manner as it is...another thing to inspect close would be the lifting springs and ensure that they are properly positioned and not bucking against the desired movement of the linkage. Edited November 30, 2020 by Plymouthy Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santafeguy Posted November 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 I agree about the disc thickness. I spoke to the machinist who rebuilt the engine and installed the clutch disc. A good guy, I’ve used many times, with 40 years experience. He states that all he did on the clutch was lightly resurface the flywheel (stating there was very little wear and no damage), and install the new disc. He states he did not do anything to the pressure plate. By the lifting springs, I assume you mean parts catalog diagram # 6-16-1, or part number 855 521. From what I see through the transmission hole, they all are responding correctly. Thanks to you both for your help. When is gets light out, and warms a bit, I’ll pull the pan assy and inspect. If I see nothing obvious, I’ll pull the pressure plate. Im feeling like leaving the adjusting nuts for the release levers alone. guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 I agree with leaving the fingers alone....I also cannot state often enough....when you don't know what is wrong, prove what is right....only a step by step hand on will assure the components are properly installed...while viewing the hub....they are similar in size and shape....it is the spring capture cage that is critical on install... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 When I adjust my clutch I shoot for .060" plate departure, this is the gap between the pressure plate and clutch disc. It is somewhat variable, more departure makes the clutch engage towards the top of the pedal travel, less departure towards the bottom, but you need enough to let the clutch release, so there is a minimum, which I never bothered to find in my case. There is also too much, that will make the release bearing ride on the fingers with the pedal out, you don't want that either. Pedal freeplay is a labor saving device that usually works. But on your case something is amiss. I would double check all the clutch linkage to make sure that there is nothing worn out eating up the freeplay you are seeing as well. there are bushing in the torqueshaft that wear, the ends of the linkages may be worn out, stuff like that. Make sure everything is lubed up and not binding as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 I'd temporarily minimize the freeplay way down 1st to see if there is some pressure plate pull back from the disc. This with the lower cover removed. If the clutch still won't dis-engage probably a linkage issue as mentioned or faulty pressure plate. The linkage rods do get worn a lot on high mileage cars...I have had to weld a few up in the past. Also check the pilot bushing ,disc and input shaft splines for clearance, free movement etc. These old MoPar clutch jobs are one of the easiest jobs to perform normally.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santafeguy Posted November 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 Thanks to each of you for your help. Problem diagnosed. The new clutch disc, ordered from a reputable vendor, was incorrect. The new clutch was thicker in the spring housing area and rubbed the pressure plate cover. Notice shiny rub marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted December 1, 2020 Report Share Posted December 1, 2020 Weird looking parts they sell these days for the old MoPar flatheads. It was always a Auburn or Borg and Beck 9-1/4" disc.? It used to be so easy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santafeguy Posted December 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2020 Quite a bit thicker. See photos. Still waiting for vendor to get back to me.....they only asked 9 1/4 or 10 inch when ordered. Parts book shows the same disc for Auburn or Borg & Beck. I consider myself lucky, only minor damage to the plate. Thanks again for everyone’s help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desoto1939 Posted December 1, 2020 Report Share Posted December 1, 2020 yes I have a Borg and Beck catalog so I can match up the presure plate and the cluth disk when ordering a rebuilt unit. These are the reasons to have the catalogs to verify that the seller is sending you the correct part. Rich Hartung desoto1939@aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Buchanan Posted December 1, 2020 Report Share Posted December 1, 2020 Glad you found the problem. The old disk would probably run a long time in my car...... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted December 1, 2020 Report Share Posted December 1, 2020 Yup... That would certainly do it. Interesting looking spring hub. I don't believe I've ever seen one like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santafeguy Posted December 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2020 A quick note, and then this issue is done. The reputable vendor, often recommended on this site, has responded. After discussing with my coworkers it seems like some of the repoped discs have that issue with some pressure plates. We unfortunately do not have disc with a lower profile so we can either give you a refund for that disc, send in the old one for a reliner or I can sell you a matching pressure plate at cost. Let me know how you want to proceed. I am pleased with their response. Since I have put the trans in and out several times diagnosing this issue, I opted for the refund. I appreciate the vendor’s honesty. I appreciate their making it right. An example of why we should always choose a reputable vendor, and not try to cut corners with cheaper parts. again, my humble thanks to you all that responded to my request for help. Happy motoring to us all. Respectfully, Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted December 2, 2020 Report Share Posted December 2, 2020 This acknowledgement is great coming from a vendor...but if they do not follow up on their website by POSTING A WARNING that this issue has caused concerns when disc is mounted solo of their matching pressure plate then the bottom line is thanks for your money....we will refund if is a nice gesture, but you are out all the aggravation and labor that THEY could easily have prevented with the added note on the product but of course they would lose initial sales. Think of the accelerated cost and issues if you provided this part to a shop or the shop itself sourced this part on their own not to mentioned the extended down time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santafeguy Posted December 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2020 A last thought. My pressure plate was an Auburn. It might help someone in the future. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Buchanan Posted December 2, 2020 Report Share Posted December 2, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Santafeguy said: A quick note, and then this issue is done. The reputable vendor, often recommended on this site, has responded. After discussing with my coworkers it seems like some of the repoped discs have that issue with some pressure plates. We unfortunately do not have disc with a lower profile so we can either give you a refund for that disc, send in the old one for a reliner or I can sell you a matching pressure plate at cost. Let me know how you want to proceed. If I was about to buy a new clutch disc, I would really want to know which vendor you were dealing with so I could take measures to prevent the same problem with my clutch. You aren't doing anyone any favors by not identifying the vendor...might even be setting the vendor up for more customer returns. Edited December 2, 2020 by Sam Buchanan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted December 2, 2020 Report Share Posted December 2, 2020 while I will to some degree protect a vendor....I do so by feed back to them and suggestions such as amend your listing with a caution as to possible interchange interference if not bought as a matching set. IF said vendor does amend this posting then all is well...if he does not and the vendor is not listed then the forum at large is not getting the benefit of knowing such as you just raised as an issue. I like full disclosure with as little bashing as possible. But there are times one needs speak out if the sellers refuse to admit wrong, change an ad or flat out deceive from the get-go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santafeguy Posted December 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2020 You and Sam have raised similar points. As a new person to this site, I try to tread lightly. Both you and Sam have helped educate me on this site and how it is used. I will email the person handling my complaint with the request that they footnote their listing as to potential issues and ask questions if the person ordering a clutch disc from them. Should they not do as you suggest, I will follow up the thread by posting the vendors name. Again, thank you for your responses. Respectfully Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted December 2, 2020 Report Share Posted December 2, 2020 (edited) this is the responsible manner in which it should be handled...the ball is now in his court as to if he wishes to play by set rules and fair practices...you had done good so far... Edited December 2, 2020 by Plymouthy Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santafeguy Posted December 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2020 Here is the final outcome. They refunded $106 of my $120 investment in the clutch. Guess they didn’t refund shipping. No word on my footnote request to their catalog. For anyone buying a clutch disc from Andy Bernbaum’s ask questions. The disc definitely did NOT fit my Auburn clutch ( pressure plate). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desoto1939 Posted December 29, 2020 Report Share Posted December 29, 2020 Since you have a Plymouth the correct PP would be a Borg Warner PP and clutch plate so why did oyu have an Auburn system they are not the same. It seems very odd that the vendor would have supplied you with an Auburn system when if they are a MoPar vender that the correct unit is a Borg and Beck unit Someone really messed up with this order. We all can make mistakes. So if you are or anyone is going to be ordering a new PP and Clutch disk write to me and I will lok up the correct numbers for you. I have a Borg warner Clutch book that goes from mid 1930 - 1960. Rich Hartung Desoto1939@aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff I indu Posted December 29, 2020 Report Share Posted December 29, 2020 Over the past year I've had a few issues with Bernbaums. I ordered a brake overhaul kit and they sent me the wrong brake return springs. After struggling to make them work over a weekend I finally gave up and called them on monday and told them they were a half inch too short. A week later I got the correct ones for no charge. Recently replaced the front motor mount while doing the timing chain and the new mount had holes that were a quarter inch less wide than my old mount. I could have drilled them but chose to call and complain. They knew what my issue was immediately as others had the same issue. They sent me a new mount but again a week delay. My frustration was that they knew they had a repetitive issue and it was not fixed. I hate gearing up for a job, picking the best day of the week lining up your tools, getting dirty and then finding out you dont have the right parts. It's not just them. I just did a oil change on my wife's 2015 buick encore. Went to autozone for oil and filter. Even looked at the filter and told the girl if looked a little different than what I remembered. But her computer said it was correct. So in the middle of a oil change I find out it wont fit and have to fish my old one out of the trash and reuse it. Returned the wrong filter and got credit for it. I asked about getting another jug of mobil one because their error caused me to do a half ass oil change but they couldn't do that. The part number the computer spot out was correct. The girl pulled one off the shelf that was one digit off. And so it goes... Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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