Jump to content

Part number for Transmission Drive Pinion 1941 D19 3 spd ?


Recommended Posts

I had a little accident- the last time I installed it a couple months ago the transmission rolled off the transmission jack, and it suspended the entire weight of the tranny on the drive pinion shaft, with it hung up on the bell housing. (I sure miss having my old upper body strength- I used to just lift a 3 or 4 speed up into position without any problem- the car isn't the only thing getting old...)

Getting it back in the car, I noticed drive train vibration as I got up to around 45 mph.

Having the transmission out of the car again,  I am pretty sure I have bent the shaft of the drive pinion, because when I spun it I saw some obvious wobble as I turned the mainshaft, tranny in 3rd gear (1:1).

Inspecting the end of the drive pinion shaft with a dial indicator there is about .030" run-out as it turns. Not good.

So, I am looking for the part number for this drive pinion and found no reference numbers in my shop manual. Can someone help identify a part number for this drive pinion? Or something to I.D. the tranny or years used? Maybe the pic and the case markings will help.

Thanx much!

 

1466123701_41Dodge3SpeedTrans.JPG.686f228ec81dcae69ac2749a3bb86941.JPG

Link to post
Share on other sites

according to my tri state mopar parts cataog  main drive pinions  all models 1940-52 wihtout fluid drive mopar # 853864  with fluid drive 41-52 957859

 

The org warner part number is listed a  wt243-16  19 teeth

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

Link to post
Share on other sites

GREAT!

In the meantime I am checking the ball and trunnion joints, and drive shaft too. 

If I do find the pinion shaft is bad, this is great info. I do see there are some NOS out there for sale. Super!

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

You need to make some guide bolts for installing the trans. Find two bolts the same thread as the bell housing with the unthreaded portion about 5 inches. Cut off the head and cut a slot in the end. Screw these into the bellhousing top holes then slide the transmission in on them. Use a screwdriver in the slots to remove the guide bolts. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I will be very surprised if your main drive gear is bent from the actions you described.  The weight of the trans isn't likely to have done it.  Bear in mind that the setup you show with the indicator doesn't support the shaft so it is free to wobble around to the limit of the bearing's tolerance.  And you are measuring a  l-o-n-g way from the bearing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

More reason for me to do the driveshaft first and see what happens. I don't know if that's it. The ball & trunnion joints don't have much play or end shake at all. Only about.008" clearance on the balls inside the housings (they need to have some), and not more than about .008-.010" side to side end shake- but with the drive shaft out of the car, I will probably do them again to be certain. Only have about 1 oz of grease inside the housing at the balls too, so should be no imbalance there.

 

I am still not sure about the pinion shaft. I do understand what you are saying. This morning, with the trans in neutral, and having my wife turn the tailshaft at the parking brake drum, there is enough viscous drag to turn the pinion shaft in front. With me lightly loading the shaft with my fingers to one side inside the retainer, I still see the wobble. It isn't running true. 

 I have the dial indicator at the end because that is where it is supported by the pilot bushing, which should show the most out-of- round condition. 

I would have attached the short video, but it is a larger file than I am allowed. More investigation to come, I guess...

Thanx, all.

Bruce

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing to be on the lookout for...

 

Many years ago I rebuilt my three speed. I used a NOS input shaft. I went to put the trans in and it went was tight. I was bitching about it as I was "sucking" the Trans to the block. My buddy, in his late 70's at the time, standing next to the car told me to watch that I do not ~~~CRACK~~~ and ear on the transmission.

 

$%^$^ I yelled. You got it, I cracked the ear on the Trans just as he was talking and I was say ya, ya ya...

 

When all the dust settled, lucky I had another trans and used that case, it was the NOS input shaft. Mine was for a fluid coupling. The book said it was supposed to be 1.00 Inch in diameter.  Turns out mine was 1.xx  inch. It was over. With a new bushing in the fluid coupling it would not slip in.

 

So, the lesson learned is to use a bore measurement tool and make also measure any new shafts and make dame sure they will fit. Do not assume it will.

 

James.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, James_Douglas said:

Nobody likes a smarts ass 🙂

one way to view it but in truth the page that was pictured of the supersede book shows that superseded parts and the U and S may need other associated parts in which to make it work...case in this point could well have been the fact a larger pilot bushing opening for the shaft you used that lead up to the destruction of transmission case...just making an observation and asking a valid question...

Link to post
Share on other sites

As for the wobble, in use the input shaft is designed to be supported at both ends, one end is the input shaft bearing in the case, the other end is the pilot bushing mentioned above.  With your setup one end isn't being supported and will wobble about.  To really test is you need to reinstall the trans, without the clutch assembly or even the flywheel and measure the runout that way as both ends will be supported as designed.  Not fun.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I sent Bruce a PM in reply to a personal input question.....many overlook that when installing a tranny it is not good to rest or allow the weight of the tranny to fall in a downward direction when input shaft is not supported by the pilot bushing as bending a clutch disc at the hub can result...ever so slight of a bend will induce vibrations.....

Edited by Plymouthy Adams
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanx, all.

This is how it ended up:

Unfortunately, my suspicions were correct. The input pinion shaft did get bent. With the pinion shaft hung up on the bell housing, the full weight of the tranny had slammed down pretty hard, with the pinion shaft left hanging off the bell housing and clutch. Took the forum advice and checked it more carefully. Decided to pull it out. Chucking it up to accurately check it end to end I got about .036" run-out on a dial indicator, so it bent it about .018". Seems like that was the likely source of my vibration at around 45 mph and up. 

Although I hadn't found any wear or excessive play or end-shake on the driveshaft ball and trunnion joints, I tore those down, am going to put a couple new pin and bearing kits in (housings look great) after I get the driveshaft checked for run-out and balanced. Can't hurt, and I will know it's right.

Desoto1939, thanx for the pinion shaft part number. I did find an NOS part, will have it and a new gasket set soon and will get it back together.

Thanx again everybody.

Bruce

Link to post
Share on other sites

Couldn't have done the clutch disc hub/center any good either.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes. As you and Plymouthy both suggested, I have checked the clutch disc and it did get tweaked.

Getting a new one.

And this time I made a simple wood crib for the tranny to sit on the tranny jack so it will be better secured. I don't need any more accidents to happen. With JohnS48plm's suggestion to make some guide bolts (brilliant!) it will be a lot safer this time.

Spending more time and $ is a rough education! 

Thanx, fellas. Great help. Soon to be doing a lot of driving in the old girl!

Link to post
Share on other sites

When I converted my Diplomat over to 4 speed I used two studs at the top of the bell to trans connection.  Just put washers and nuts on them once I had everything stabbed in and the lower two bolts started.  Not a huge fan of R&R'ing steel bolts in aluminum threads, the bellhousing in my swap was an aluminum one.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This helped. See below. 
 

Other calamities include a helper up top, dropping tools onto your face.  I found that the tranny on my chest was not really a smart way for me to drop, or re-install it.  

I found, just jacking the car up enough to slide the tranny under is enough. With my floor pans and seat out, I sit in there on the car floor. My on the shop floor. I solo dead-lift the tranny up on the guide bolts. My ‘38 3 speed is not overly heavy.
 

 In my experience it was easier and safer to do myself.  Easier on needed dental work too. A ⅜ ratchet falling from above will make short work of a front tooth. 

 

 

160AEA03-02DE-4DB1-8AEF-32F5317BAA95.jpeg
 

 

DC86A34B-649D-4964-9F69-AF60607A2412.jpeg

Edited by keithb7
Link to post
Share on other sites

Great pix and a great method. Safer, too.

BTW- over the last 10 days my split lip from almost missing the tail shaft when the tranny fell down is healing up very nicely now (if I don't laugh too hard) and I do still have all the teeth I started with   :) 

Just goes to show that even a guy with a "Safety First" credo, given enough opportunities, will screw up.

Keeps me humble!

(a couple buddies suggested the lip was from me being the victim of spousal abuse because of my warped sense of humor and endless wife jokes...)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't make fun of my wife, when I need an extra hand she is right there....just in the past couple weeks she has bailed me out installing the 10 x 10 foot metal doors I welded and skinned them then mock hung while marked, drilled and tapped the holes in the metal post for the hinges to screw into and the other evening she was the one doing the balancing act with the 12 foot 2 x 6's as I bored the holes for doweling together a table top, Shopsmith makes a good drill press with the rip guide for centering but the short table says helper needed real quick.....112 holes and 110 were a perfect alignment, two had to be slightly bumped and pulled with the clamps....could not  have done it without her.  

 

 

 

 

IMG_3937.JPG

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am lucky as well, my wife still willingly helps me whatever the occasion and I could use that extra pair of hands...🙂

Edited by T120
Link to post
Share on other sites

Plymouthy, great job. Makes me want to make a new bench.

And so right you are. My wife is a total sweetheart too, she helped me build our metal 900 sq ft shop 3 years ago hoisting panels and a lot of screws, nuts and bolts (a lot of it out in the desert heat!) and is always there for me. As with yours, she is right there when I need any help. Has a great mechanical aptitude, making some great suggestions. And a great sense of humor, she loves to relate any funny story or husband joke she finds! We laugh a lot and I can't imagine being without her. We have completed a lot of shared projects together. My best friend.

We are truly blessed to have them and everything they do.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.

Terms of Use