New Exhaust

[squirebill]

Like stated above, "Get the car back."!!!!  Find the problem and if it is simple, fix it yourself.  Should have all new parts and all the hard work is done, i.e. loosening manifold bolts, etc.  If paid by CC, dispute the charge., then they get nothing until you are satisfied.  If you find they really screwed something up (broken manifold, etc.) See where they stand on setting things right.  If not satisfied with their efforts , leave the disputed charge as is., they get nothing.   If they are willing to make things right and do so at no charge, you might consider just paying them for the new muffler and pipes, but not for the screwed up labor and the parts they screwed up.. 

[Los_Control]

imho, if the mechanic was prying and applying heat to a joint. And if this work moved something upstream ... ?

 

If applying heat to the header to get the bolts from exhaust to free up, then up further a intake gasket failed ...  Not the mechanic fault the intake gasket/exhaust failed.

Same time if it did, Honest shop would say what is up. This will now cost more then we thought originally.

 

If they cant even say what is wrong, it needs to come home.

[Los_Control]

Just now, squirebill said:

If you find they really screwed something up (broken manifold, etc.) See where they stand on setting things right

Can you possibly prove who screwed up the 70 year old manifold? How much effort would go into trying to prove it .... what would a judge sitting on a bench say about it?

[squirebill]

Proving who did what  and when could be an issue in court.  Would hope it wouldn't go that far.  In my head though, if I took a car to a shop for muffler work and it is returned making more noise now than when I took it in, would seem obvious that something went wrong at the shop.  Either faulty parts or faulty workmanship or both.   As I see it, the car owner has very little leverage at this point.  His car is still at the shop!  As stated above the car owner should get the car home, complete with the new parts the shop installed and now the car owner has some leverage especially if he paid by CC.  He can dispute the charge through the CC company until he is satisfied with the shops service.   If he paid by check, he can stop payment on the check.  If he paid by cash at least his has his car with the new parts.  With the car still in the shop,  he has nothing to show for his payment except a noisier car on someone else's property and no leverage.   

[Plymouthy Adams]

unfortunately today there is fewer resources for the owner to command satisfaction and stopping a payment or such to a licensed business can garner a mechanic lien on the vehicle.  While he may not get his money from you...should you sell or heirs take procession later after you pass...that lien will need be cleared as they have first right to disposition...consumers have fewer rights and get fewer yet daily it seems.  

 

is there a quick and easy solution, other than asking the man to please go back over his work and that if something was accidently broken in the process it is understandable but will still need be fixed by the shop though you may have to tolerate it till say if in case a manifold was damage one could be found...just get an acknowledgement as to their intent/willingness to fix the vehicle....again, why one must be very proactive on doing their own maintenance even when it is inconvenient.  

[Dodgeb4ya]

Judge Judy might be required in this case.

[Plymouthy Adams]

JJ is a total AH...saw the show one time as a captive audience at a business while in hold pattern....total waste...as Sheldon would say she sits on the kiddie's bench of her profession...

[Dodgeb4ya]

She puts up with NO BS!

Don't mess with JJ!

 

 

[desoto1939]

This why when paying for services I pay by Credit card. Then you have some options against the service provider.  If the car is not getting fixed and or even being looked at by the shop thne bring it home for safe keeping in your garage not theirs.  Even if they have the car and will not give it up they do not have any right to keep the car. You paid for the work. They should look over the car in one hour tops to determine the issue.  Then provide you with an estimate or fix the issue.  Get a written statement from them.

 

Next record in a document all that has happened.  This wil be a small claims court issue. It will cost you money to file with the court the issue but if you win the case the shop will have to pay for the court costs and the money that you are seeking as damages.   Do not say anythng to the shop owner if you are going to do this prior to getting the car back at your home.

 

Ask them to fix the issue and if they say no then take possession of the car out of their shop and property go home and then file the paperwork with the court.

 

I had to do this with a person that was going to re stucco my chimney. i had put money down on the job and they never showed up to do the job. called and called and they never replied. I won the case and he lost and had to payout more money than if he had done the job.

 

Rich HArtung

desoto1939@aol.com

[ChrisMinelli]

So I finally got someone to call me back (car has been back in the shop for almost ten days).  They are claiming the transmission is making noise (!!) and have it out to “measure” it.  
 

I told them the exhaust is what I need rechecked.  He told me it sounded “fine” and he didn’t hear anything wrong with it. 
 

I’m close to losing my temper with these people but I can’t even get the car home because they’ve dismantled my transmission.  I paid by check and am looking at my recourse against them.  

[keithb7]

You must know a lawyer...This getting worse! Send a tow truck. Get it outta there ASAP!

[Adam H P15 D30]

I usually HATE to go this route because it makes it really difficult on a shop but if you didn't authorize the transmission work on a repair order they are in violation of several automotive repair rules.  At least you are not obligated to pay any charges you did not authorize on a repair order.  Did you sign anything when you returned to the shop to have them recheck the work?

Laws vary state to state, where are you located?

 

EDIT: Just read back and I saw you're in Illinois.  You have easy recourse especially if there wasn't a second repair invoice written and signed when you brought the car back.

https://illinoisattorneygeneral.gov/consumers/autorepair_act.html

Edited November 24, 2020 by Adam H P15 D30

[Sam Buchanan]

29 minutes ago, ChrisMinelli said:

So I finally got someone to call me back (car has been back in the shop for almost ten days).  They are claiming the transmission is making noise (!!) and have it out to “measure” it.  

 

The bovine by-product meter is pegged on this one..............

[plymjim]

Never thought I would utter these words but here goes,

You need a lawyer. Please get your car away from these

Bozos. You don;t actually think they know where all your

parts are, do you? Measuring the transmission for noise??

What the heck!!!!

[Dodgeb4ya]

A muffler shop knowing anything about a 52 Plymouth transmission...

Na....

Get someone who knows cars well enough and go with you  to that muffler shop to see first hand what's going on with your car.

Phone calls and being too nice isn't doing much to get the situation taken car of quickly.

 

[Tooljunkie]

I would be demanding they stop. And get a towtruck. 
i run my own shop, if im about to dig into something that was no part of the original job i get authorization first. With a rough estimate. 
that exhaust is pretty straight forward if its anything like the exhaust in my 51 Fargo. I did mine from end to end for a touch over $100 in parts. 
 

this is a major F-UP on their part and trying to cover their ass. 
get your butt down there and look at what they have apart. 

[DJ194950]

Time to get a hold of local D.A. office and explain this situation and ask for a meeting at that shop with at least the local police to get your car.

 

Have a tow truck on standby to get your car- - Now!

 

Then after  your inspection decide if a lawyer is worth the cost to sue or just file some kind of local small claims suit.

 

Get the car!

 

DJ

[Dodgeb4ya]

Yes...get the car outta there....now.

[ChrisMinelli]

So an update... I am a lawyer myself and after giving them more of the benefit of the doubt and not getting a response I brought the hammer down. Long story short they admitted not being familiar with anything related to my car and the “fix” is they are having another shop that was recommended to me repair the car on their (original shop’s) Dime.  
 

The new shop called and said the exhaust noise in the engine compartment appears to be coming from the air intake.  The guy said it is definitely the result of the new exhaust but he isn’t sure whether the old shop broke it or if some sort of pressure difference changed things.  He’s seeing what needs to be done and will call me the is week. 
 

Does that sound like a reasonable analysis?  I haven’t seen the car and can’t listen for myself.  I don’t know why a new exhaust could do that but I’m all ears. 

[Frank Elder]

What about that slick move with your transmission how the H E double hockey sticks did they justify taking that out? 

[keithb7]

Exhaust noise from the air intake side is often a symptom of an intake valve that is not sealing from some reason or other. When the piston travels up on the compression stroke it pushes high pressure air back out the intake valve. Back up thru the intake manifold, the wrong way. A popping noise, similar to leaking exhaust manifold gaskets can be heard. Especially as you put your ear to the carb intake. How this be a result of the new exhaust that incompetent shop #1 installed, is a mystery to me. However if shop #2 is being paid by shop #1, shop #2 is gonna prove some way or another, come h e l l or high water, that the repair shop #2 did, was needed due to something shop #1 screwed up.

 

There is no shortage of incompetence these days....I'd send a tow truck and get it home. ASAP. Before this escalates further. Write off the experience and fix it yourself.  I'd wager it would probably take the average person here under 30 mins to find exactly why you are hearing an exhaust leak. 

 

I love the fact that a lawyer can fix his old 1952 car at home. Good luck

 

- Signed, The couch quarter back, keyboard warrior.

Edited December 2, 2020 by keithb7

[Tooljunkie]

My 51 Fargo will occasionally stick a valve and cause a popping noise,and rough running. I spay penetrating oil in carb while its running and usually it goes away in less than a minute as engine warms up. Considering most of the valves were stuck when i got it, its almost expected. 
 

good luck with whatever they find. 

[Sam Buchanan]

12 hours ago, ChrisMinelli said:

The new shop called and said the exhaust noise in the engine compartment appears to be coming from the air intake.  The guy said it is definitely the result of the new exhaust but he isn’t sure whether the old shop broke it or if some sort of pressure difference changed things.  He’s seeing what needs to be done and will call me the is week. 

 

I would bet you a handful of broken studs that the gasket between the exhaust and intake manifold at the heat riser has failed. There will be a lot of "intake noise" (it is actually exhaust noise) especially if the gasket has failed on the side next to the crankcase. I chased this for awhile until I figured it out.....fixing the leak resulted in a mouse-quiet engine. Just hope the manifold wasn't damaged by the original shop.

[kencombs]

12 hours ago, ChrisMinelli said:

The new shop called and said the exhaust noise in the engine compartment appears to be coming from the air intake.  The guy said it is definitely the result of the new exhaust but he isn’t sure whether the old shop broke it or if some sort of pressure difference changed things.  He’s seeing what needs to be done and will call me the is week. 
 

Does that sound like a reasonable analysis?  I haven’t seen the car and can’t listen for myself.  I don’t know why a new exhaust could do that but I’m all ears. 

Exhaust noise from the intake?   There are only two possibilities that come to mind.  First it the stuck intake mentioned by another poster, but that doesn't actually create an exhaust noise, just a noise of moving air.  No exhaust gases involved.

 

Second would be a hole in the intake where the exhaust heat passages are located.  With the exhaust pipe attachment being so far from that area I can't imagine what could have been done by the shop to cause that.  Maybe it was eroded and just picked now to open up. 

 

In that case I would expect a dead miss on the cylinders served by the center intake port as the intake charge would be badly diluted by the exhaust.

 

BTW, I know exactly where that exhaust passage is because I opened it up with a grinder while doing by two barrel carb mods.  Epoxy to the rescue.  No worries as I won't be running manifold heat.

[kencombs]

2 minutes ago, Sam Buchanan said:

 

I would bet you a handful of broken studs that the gasket between the exhaust and intake manifold at the heat riser has failed. There will be a lot of "intake noise" (it is actually exhaust noise) especially if the gasket has failed on the side next to the crankcase. I chased this for awhile until I figured it out.....fixing the leak resulted in a mouse-quiet engine. Just hope the manifold wasn't damaged by the original shop.

Very possible, if the second shop's observation of noise from the 'air intake' is erroneous.  I assumed that meant the air intake, and there's only one, in the top of the carb.