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Quick-ratio steering box?


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So I'm going over some of the upgrades that I'd like to make on the '51 Concord, and I'm wondering if anyone here has swapped out the stock 24:1 manual steering box on their older Mopar for a quicker 16:1 box. Flaming River offers a very pricey option...

 

https://www.flamingriver.com/index.php/products/c0011/s0008/FR1540

 

...although I'm not sure that that fits our cars. I've read posts elsewhere from people who have switched to 16:1 on their '60s Mopars, and most seem to like it. It apparently makes steering at slow speeds even harder than it already is (which obviously isn't ideal), but really helps with handling at speed. Any thoughts? Thanks!

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1 hour ago, SuperGas61 said:

So I'm going over some of the upgrades that I'd like to make on the '51 Concord, and I'm wondering if anyone here has swapped out the stock 24:1 manual steering box on their older Mopar for a quicker 16:1 box. Flaming River offers a very pricey option...

 

https://www.flamingriver.com/index.php/products/c0011/s0008/FR1540

 

...although I'm not sure that that fits our cars. I've read posts elsewhere from people who have switched to 16:1 on their '60s Mopars, and most seem to like it. It apparently makes steering at slow speeds even harder than it already is (which obviously isn't ideal), but really helps with handling at speed. Any thoughts? Thanks!

Well,yeah.

 

Why would ANYBODY want to do that? We do almost all of our driving at speeds below 60 MPH,and at speeds faster than that,the slowest steering is quick.

 

Seems to me akin to shooting yourself in the foot before  a dance contest.

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Pretty sure that Flaming River box is not a bolt in, 100% sure in fact.

 

Ever drive a later model Mopar with dead power steering?  The effort to turn that is more substantial than the manual 16:1 box.  I drove my 64 300 for a couple years with a no power power steering system.  It wasn't an issue for me, but I don't have spaghetti arms either.

 

You know, none of my cars have power steering and even my 15 year old son, who does have spaghetti arms, has no problem steering them even at low speeds.

 

Hmm, I might have to rethink calling him spaghetti arms. 

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I'd be very surprised if there is a bolt in steering box that has a quicker ratio, its just not something that was considered back in the 40's & 50's............however it maybe possible to have either a different, ie shorter or longer pitman arm or similarly changed steering arms made by a competent engineering shop.......a new pitman arm will require the pitman shaft spline to be broached and the "dogbone" shape and tierod taper made but thats not impossible...........as for the steering arms, new ones made either shorter or longer will alter the steering ratio and may offer what you want........but I'm curious as to your reasoning for a quicker ratio?.........andyd  

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This was why all the old cars and trucks had such big steering wheels.

 

You could maybe look around for,or make a slightly larger diameter steering wheel to give you more leverage. Maybe something from a truck or bus?

 

This would have to be the cheapest and most practical way to go.

Edited by knuckleharley
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When I 1st built my Dodge with the 318 Poly I installed a rack & pinion which as most rack were they do not have the same left/right "throw" that a normal steering box has which meant I had a 100ft(more or less......lol.) turning circle.....the answer was to have the steering arms shortened 1" which due to the fact that steering arms by virtue of their design are angled more towards the centre of a car due to the Ackerman principle............shortening them means that the "throw" of the rack & pinion acts more directly on the stub axle consequently turning the stub axle at a sharper angle, reducing the turning circle..............the car has had this modification plus narrowing the Austin 1800 rack by 9" to reduce bump steer for over 45 yrs and whilst the steering effort is not low its something I have found bearable.............dunno if this helps..........andyd      

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On 10/13/2020 at 6:20 PM, knuckleharley said:

This was why all the old cars and trucks had such big steering wheels.

 

You could maybe look around for,or make a slightly larger diameter steering wheel to give you more leverage. Maybe something from a truck or bus?

 

This would have to be the cheapest and most practical way to go.

The steering wheels are already like 18 inches how the heck are you gonna fit in the car and sill reach the pedals, if you get a bigger steering wheel I don't know about you but I don't like driving with the steering wheel on my stomach......lol.

Edited by Frank Elder
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8 hours ago, Frank Elder said:

The steering wheels are already like 18 inches how the heck are you gonna fit in the car and sill reach the pedals, if you get a bigger steering I don't know about you but I don't like driving with the steering wheel on my stomach......lol.

Well,I am assuming there ARE people out there with maybe less bulge in the middle than you or I.

 

And I hate them ALL!

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On 10/13/2020 at 1:03 PM, Sniper said:

Pretty sure that Flaming River box is not a bolt in, 100% sure in fact.

 

Ever drive a later model Mopar with dead power steering?  The effort to turn that is more substantial than the manual 16:1 box.  I drove my 64 300 for a couple years with a no power power steering system.  It wasn't an issue for me, but I don't have spaghetti arms either.

 

You know, none of my cars have power steering and even my 15 year old son, who does have spaghetti arms, has no problem steering them even at low speeds.

 

Hmm, I might have to rethink calling him spaghetti arms. 

Regarding your son, remember he knows where you sleep and you do gotta sleep sometime. 😁

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He also has a brown belt in Tae Kwan Do, I am not too worried, lol.  Years ago when he was smaller he mouthed off to his sister, the youngest of my daughters, she's 10 years older than him.  She held him upside down in the shower with one hand and turned the cold water on him.  To this day he still remembers that and doesn't mouth off to her.  She has her black belt, lol.

 

Me?  I'm too big and too fast for either to get a shot in on me, the daughter tries on occasion and usually ends up on the ground wondering how she got there.  they say the key to success is persistence, maybe one day.  It's almost like the Pink Panther around here some days.  We won't get into the Nerf gun wars and ambushes.

 

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Remember though, they are getting better and faster. And no matter what you do, you will get old and slow. A good relationship goes a long way to eliminate problems with family  😁

Edited by plymouthcranbrook
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