SuperGas61 Posted September 27, 2020 Report Share Posted September 27, 2020 Hey, everyone....so my '51 Concord was running great after I bought it a couple of weeks ago, but after sitting for a couple of days last week, it has decided to welcome me to the community by not starting. At first it would crank fine but not turn over (and it didn't really sound as though it was getting close to turning over). After numerous attempts, the 12v battery that runs the starter (the car is 6v otherwise, on another battery) began to fade, and then died. So I took the battery in, had it tested, and it was bad, so I picked up a replacement and installed it, and it's now cranking like crazy again. But still not starting. Fuel is shooting into the carb throat when I work the accelerator lever at the bottom of the carb, so it's getting fuel, but one thing I noticed is that the choke plate doesn't seem to close under any circumstances when trying to start cold. Is this right? The only thing I've done is to move the lever that connects the choke plate to (I think) the fast-idle circuit at the bottom of the carb--there appears to be an up position and a down position, one of which seems to lock the choke plate in place, and the other that allows it to flutter freely. In any case, I also haven't checked for spark yet, or done a compression test, or checked the plugs for fouling in case I flooded it, but that's next. I've also been running pump gas with ethanol (which the seller expressly told me not to do), since the closest ethanol-free gas is about 50 miles away, so I'm wondering if that may be an issue, too. Anyway, any thoughts or suggestions would be welcome...thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthcranbrook Posted September 27, 2020 Report Share Posted September 27, 2020 If you are getting a lot of fuel you could have flooded it. Is there spark? The Sission choke is electrically activated when the starter is engaged by a lead from the main starter terminal. After the engine starts and the starter is no longer engages it reverts to a bi-metal expansion type. You can check choke operation by either using a remote start or getting someone else to crank the motor while you watch with the air cleaner off to see if it closes. If there is no movement check to see if the linkages are hooked up. A search here will give you a lot of information. If that is working check all the usual suspects, spark plugs, rotor, cap, points(especially adjustment). The wire to the points inside the distributor has a nasty tendency to break and loose contact. Ethanol is usable. It just tends to make vapor lock easier on hot days and of course also eat untreated rubber parts of the fuel system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los_Control Posted September 27, 2020 Report Share Posted September 27, 2020 Welcome to the forum, you will have to go through the basics and figure why it is not starting. I do not lie, I like short cuts. I like starting fluid for a tool. If I give the carb a squirt and it starts or tries to, I know to start looking at fuel delivery issues. If it does not try with the starting fluid, I know to look at spark issues. .... We all agree starting fluid is bad to run off of, but a whiff of it in the carb will tell you a lot. We know there are other things to check .... I am guessing since it did run and it quit, possible crap from the gas tank clogging the lines, or the rubber diagfram from the fuel pump failed. ... filter(s) clogged ... I bought my fuel pump from napa last year for $35 I bought a rebuilt carb from rockauto for not much money and have a new fuel tank from another supplier. When someone stops driving a old car, often they sit for some time before they actually decide to sell them. The owner says ran great 5 years ago ... in reality means it has been sitting for 10 years. Or can be a simple ignition problem, maybe the coil died, or condenser ... it will be a simple fix once you find it. These old dodge flathead sixes they built right up into the 70's for airport tugs and other vehicles outside of the states stationary farm equipment and welders ... Just because they were such a great dependable engine. Whole point is, do not give up on it because you own it for 2 weeks and it quits running. You just need to work through some growing pains as you bring it back to a dependable driver. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted September 27, 2020 Report Share Posted September 27, 2020 There should be a lead that goes from the starter to the choke to close it. It hooks to the same point as the stater cable, at leas tit does on my 51 Cambridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperGas61 Posted September 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2020 Thanks everyone. I saw some other posts about the Sisson choke, and I thought I might have it on mine, but if you look at the first photo below, you'll see that there's nothing attached to the small, L-shaped lever with the hole in the center of the photo, which is where I think the Sisson connects to the choke plate mechanism. I also don't think I have the Sisson's cylindrical metal housing, which sits on the intake next to the carburetor. The only thing I see connecting the choke mechanism to anything else is the metal rod that runs from the choke-plate lever to the bottom of the carb, where I think it connects to the fast-idle circuit. And as far I can tell, there's no lead from the choke or anywhere on the carb to the starter, but I'll double-check... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperGas61 Posted September 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2020 8 hours ago, Los_Control said: Welcome to the forum, you will have to go through the basics and figure why it is not starting. I do not lie, I like short cuts. I like starting fluid for a tool. If I give the carb a squirt and it starts or tries to, I know to start looking at fuel delivery issues. If it does not try with the starting fluid, I know to look at spark issues. .... We all agree starting fluid is bad to run off of, but a whiff of it in the carb will tell you a lot. We know there are other things to check .... I am guessing since it did run and it quit, possible crap from the gas tank clogging the lines, or the rubber diagfram from the fuel pump failed. ... filter(s) clogged ... I bought my fuel pump from napa last year for $35 I bought a rebuilt carb from rockauto for not much money and have a new fuel tank from another supplier. When someone stops driving a old car, often they sit for some time before they actually decide to sell them. The owner says ran great 5 years ago ... in reality means it has been sitting for 10 years. Or can be a simple ignition problem, maybe the coil died, or condenser ... it will be a simple fix once you find it. These old dodge flathead sixes they built right up into the 70's for airport tugs and other vehicles outside of the states stationary farm equipment and welders ... Just because they were such a great dependable engine. Whole point is, do not give up on it because you own it for 2 weeks and it quits running. You just need to work through some growing pains as you bring it back to a dependable driver. Thanks! Yeah, honestly, this is the best thing that could have happened...it's the only way! ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ194950 Posted September 28, 2020 Report Share Posted September 28, 2020 You have no choke at this point. Appears that the carb. is set up for the Sisson choke. Are there drilled and tapped holes on the exhaust manifold to mount one? DJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthcranbrook Posted September 28, 2020 Report Share Posted September 28, 2020 (edited) Did it have a manual choke at some point? I am looking at the manifold and it looks different from mine. Stock 217 correct? Edited September 28, 2020 by plymouthcranbrook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperGas61 Posted September 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2020 7 hours ago, plymouthcranbrook said: Did it have a manual choke at some point? I am looking at the manifold and it looks different from mine. Stock 217 correct? I'm assuming it did, but I don't think the previous owner made the change, or at least he didn't mention it. This is theoretically a stock 218, but the D6U1 carb on here wasn't used, as far as I can tell, until '53, so that's not stock. Let me see if I can get a casting number off the intake... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperGas61 Posted September 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2020 7 hours ago, DJ194950 said: You have no choke at this point. Appears that the carb. is set up for the Sisson choke. Are there drilled and tapped holes on the exhaust manifold to mount one? DJ I know, strange, right? I'll check for the mounting holes later today...thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted September 28, 2020 Report Share Posted September 28, 2020 11 hours ago, SuperGas61 said: Thanks everyone. I saw some other posts about the Sisson choke, and I thought I might have it on mine, but if you look at the first photo below, you'll see that there's nothing attached to the small, L-shaped lever with the hole in the center of the photo, which is where I think the Sisson connects to the choke plate mechanism. I also don't think I have the Sisson's cylindrical metal housing, which sits on the intake next to the carburetor. The only thing I see connecting the choke mechanism to anything else is the metal rod that runs from the choke-plate lever to the bottom of the carb, where I think it connects to the fast-idle circuit. And as far I can tell, there's no lead from the choke or anywhere on the carb to the starter, but I'll double-check... Looks like the choke is MIA they mounting area appears to have a broken fastener on the right edge of this photo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted September 28, 2020 Report Share Posted September 28, 2020 12 hours ago, SuperGas61 said: And as far I can tell, there's no lead from the choke or anywhere on the carb to the starter, but I'll double-check... The lead goes to the choke. See pic of mine. Also, this is where the choke should have been mounted. So you can look in that area to see if the mount is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desoto1939 Posted September 28, 2020 Report Share Posted September 28, 2020 Hey Guys the owner that is asking the question plase have him contact me I have a lot of info on sisson chokes and the setup. I looks as if ths choke is located in front of the carb and if so would then take the sisson choke used onthe 49-53 Plymouths becasue of the arm lever setup. Sad to say but this model of sisson choke is the one that is more costly and can run from $200-300 for a NOS one. There shoudl be two mounting studs onthe manifold. Have the owner contact me at Desoto1939@aol.com or home phone 610-630-9188. Rich Hartung Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperGas61 Posted September 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2020 So after wiring the choke plate closed to see if a lack of choke was the problem (it wasn't), I pulled the no. 1 plug. It looked pretty good, fairly new. Wasn't wet from gas, either. So then I hooked up an inline spark-plug checker between the plug and the ignition wire and...no spark. I guess that means I'm on to the ignition system...any particular order I should check things? I don't have a ton of points experience, but the process seems fairly straightforward. Should I also do a compression test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperGas61 Posted September 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2020 12 hours ago, desoto1939 said: Hey Guys the owner that is asking the question plase have him contact me I have a lot of info on sisson chokes and the setup. I looks as if ths choke is located in front of the carb and if so would then take the sisson choke used onthe 49-53 Plymouths becasue of the arm lever setup. Sad to say but this model of sisson choke is the one that is more costly and can run from $200-300 for a NOS one. There shoudl be two mounting studs onthe manifold. Have the owner contact me at Desoto1939@aol.com or home phone 610-630-9188. Rich Hartung Hey, Rich...thanks! As I mentioned in another post, I wired the butterfly closed on my (non-existent) choke to see if that might do anything, but it didn't, and now it looks like I have a spark problem. When that gets resolved, I think I might try to convert this choke setup to manual, but if I decided to go with the Sisson, I'll be in touch...thanks...Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted September 29, 2020 Report Share Posted September 29, 2020 Start with a voltage check at the coil and points. This will establish if your key switch is good, and if the points can provide the necessary ground for the coil. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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