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Oil Pump Pick up question


Loren

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I just got a used oil pump pick up and in my examination I noted it had two small holes that looked like they were put in it with an Ice Pick.

Chrysler pick ups are supposed to float just below the surface of the oil with a limited up and down travel.

Most of the pick up is an air chamber which in this case has been compromised with the holes.

The idea being that by floating they would stay out of the gunky crud on the bottom of the oil pan and if the engine ran low on oil it would still pick up oil at the highest possible level.

I don't know if this has any benefit with modern oils.

 

Then there is the cover over the screen which is so close it touches.

If you pry off the cover you will find a hole in the screen with a metal ring. Seems like a funny place for a hole until you remember the cover.

The idea being that the cover provides a valve action if the screen clogs up. The screen is domed and if plugged it will be sucked up uncovering the hole.

Again I don't know if this has any benefit with modern oils.

 

An old timer I knew talked about how the old engines would get full of sludge. He once opened up an engine which was so full of sludge there was only enough room for the crankshaft to turn! So this must have been a very real concern at one time.

Unless someone can tell me a reason to leave the holes in the chamber I think I'll braze them up.

Same with the screen. I think I'll put the cover back in place so the valve action can work, but I am going to cut some holes in it to allow more oil to reach the available screen.

For their time these really were better engineered cars.

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Well, I do know that modern engines have that same valve action, at least the 360 I put into my Dart had it.  Maybe it was a holdover from the days of non detergent oil?  In my case all it did was let a small bit of casting flash thru to lock up my oil pump.  So I closed it up and never had an issue thereafter.  Of course, that was the only time I had an issue.

 

 

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Why second guess the very engineering that you're lauding?  Cutting extra holes wouldn't do ya any good as the holes already present should already allow as much oil flow as the pickup tube opening can allow...besides, those factory openings may be producing enough back pressure to maximize oil pump efficiency, changing that may have unintended consequences...

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2 hours ago, JBNeal said:

Why second guess the very engineering that you're lauding?  Cutting extra holes wouldn't do ya any good as the holes already present should already allow as much oil flow as the pickup tube opening can allow...besides, those factory openings may be producing enough back pressure to maximize oil pump efficiency, changing that may have unintended consequences...

Ahhhh,my old nemesis,"Unintended Consequences"!

As a wise man once noted,"If it ain't broke,don't "fix" it!"

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The engineering mentioned was done in a time that had no non-detergent oil and a lot of times no oil filter.

 

Should we should still run non detergent oil and no filter?

 

Things change and improvements can be had with some thoughtful consideration.  I wouldn't add any holes though as the flow is not changed by oil chemistry changes.  As for back pressure, go rethink what you said.  Anything on the input side is not back pressure, it's a flow restriction.  Back pressure can only occur after the pump and I am not aware of any positive displacement pump acting more efficiently with flow restrictions in it's input.

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I prefer to run engine flush though the engine a time or two after letting it get hot,and then draining the pan,adding oil,adding another quart of engine flush,and repeating until I see what looks to be clean oil pouring into the drain pan.

 

Even then,I would prefer to change the oil the first couple of times after running it long enough to get it hot to make sure all the sludge above the pan level got drained away.

 

It is very important change the oil filter each time after doing this.

 

The last time I did this was to a 1957 OHV 4 cyl Ford tractor I bought off a guy that tried to screw me by not telling me it would hold less than 5 psi oil pressure after running a while. Held factory oil pressure warmed up when I went to buy it,the price was good,so I did.

 

Got it home and started mowing a field with it,and the oil pressure kept dropping. When it got down to 5 psi,I drove the tractor to the yard,shut it down,and checked the oil. It was filthy.

 

Sooo,off to NAPA I went to buy the same oil he said he had been using in it,and a new filter. Came back home,drained the oil,and when I unscrewed the filter,it felt like it weighed 10 lbs. SOB was completely clogged with sludge.

 

That was when I figured out what this guy in his 20's had done. He knew nothing about non-detergent oil,so after he bought the tractor he changed the oil and put 10w-30 high detergent oil in it,and the high-detergent oil broke loose decades of non-detergent oil sludge,and it clogged the filter,sending the oil through the bypass,and that was why is was only holding 5 psi.

 

Since I needed to finish mowing I didn't have time to order and receive new gaskets and seals,drop the pan,clean out all the crap,and put it back together,so I just went to the local Napa store and bought a case of cheap 5w-30 generic oil and a couple of filters,and just put on a new filter,started pouring oil in 4 quarts at a time,running it it for 15-20 minutes,draining it,and repeating.

 

By the third time it was holding good oil pressure,the gauge was steady,and I was ready to go back to mowing.

 

Ran it a couple more years like that with zero problems. No base pressure,no smoking,no "jumping" oil pressure needle,and I continued to use high detergent oil.

 

Do NOT try this in an engine that doesn't have a oil bypass,though!

 

 

 

 

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I love the tractor story!

It would have been better if he saw you using it day after day with zero problems and wondered how that could be!

 

The reason I asked this question was to get other folks thoughts on the matter. Thank you all!

 

The engine is fresh and clean in the inside so there is no reason to go backwards on oil.

It will have a Positive Crankcase Ventilation kit on it so sludge will not be a problem. Sludge being moisture and acid from combustion blow by.

The vacuum placed on the crankcase absorbs the moisture before it can combine with the oil.

 

The float pick up really doesn't have a function anymore that I can see but I am not going to defeat it.

 

The screen with the valve action is harmless as far as I can see, so I will make sure it can work.

 

However, this engine will turn higher rpm than it did when it powered a forklift (or a Power Wagon) so I am going to modify the cover plate.

That's a fairly benign mod as most cars now days do not have a cover over the screen and I've seen some with much courser screens.

To be real scientific about it I think I will weigh the cover before and after I modify it, then add back the weight removed. That way the float function will remain as designed.

 

These Full Flow oil filter engines have already had the "Second Chance" oil filter by pass system defeated. That was designed to by pass oil thru the gallery if the oil filter plugged up. Since that never seemed to be a problem they made a plug which block that off.

Baby steps into the future...

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