New Member, with Handling and Drivability Questions

[Sniper]

1 hour ago, Sam Buchanan said:

Proper tire pressure is a function of the load each tire is supporting.

 

I had a Lotus Seven semi-clone (StalkerV6) with 205/50-15 tires. The proper pressure for those tires considering the weight of the car (1500lbs) was 17 psi cold, any additional pressure would decrease the contact patch. My 2300lb TR6 with 205/70-15 tires runs 24 psi cold, and the 3200lb P15 with H78-15 bias ply tires works great with 27psi cold.

 

One size does not fit all.........   ?

This is exactly right.  When I put much fatter rear tires on my cars I have to lower the tire pressures for a proper contact patch.  You can roll through a shallow puddle of water and see how the track looks coming out of it, narrower track than the tread width means too much pressure, light or nonexistent in the center means too little air pressure.  Exactly how the tire will wear if you keep running it at that pressure, too much air center wears out first, too little and the outer edges wear out first. 

 

Load plays a part too as Sam says, my work truck runs the same tire all the way around but the pressure specs aer 60 psi for the front, 80 psi in the back, it's a 3/4 ton that is fully loaded 24/7 and the tires wear even. 

[kencombs]

2 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said:

Proper tire pressure is a function of the load each tire is supporting.

 

I had a Lotus Seven semi-clone (StalkerV6) with 205/50-15 tires. The proper pressure for those tires considering the weight of the car (1500lbs) was 17 psi cold, any additional pressure would decrease the contact patch. My 2300lb TR6 with 205/70-15 tires runs 24 psi cold, and the 3200lb P15 with H78-15 bias ply tires works great with 27psi cold.

 

One size does not fit all.........   ?

Pressure, tire construction and wheel width vs tread width all play into sellecting a 'good' pressure.

 

Narrower than recommended wheels, lower pressure, wider maybe higher pressure.  Radial vs belted vs bias ply are all diffeernt in how the tread lays out under load.  On our truck side, passenger tire vs 6 or more ply load rated also help change the equation.    Wheel offset, if non-stock can also change the need for pressure.  To much that moves the contact patch outward may need more pressure to restore cornering stability.

 

The old chalk mark across the tread or in hot weather, tire temperature test are good ways to test your selection.  "feel' helps, but may mislead. 

[Sam Buchanan]

54 minutes ago, kencombs said:

Pressure, tire construction and wheel width vs tread width all play into sellecting a 'good' pressure.

 

Narrower than recommended wheels, lower pressure, wider maybe higher pressure.  Radial vs belted vs bias ply are all diffeernt in how the tread lays out under load.  On our truck side, passenger tire vs 6 or more ply load rated also help change the equation.    Wheel offset, if non-stock can also change the need for pressure.  To much that moves the contact patch outward may need more pressure to restore cornering stability.

 

The old chalk mark across the tread or in hot weather, tire temperature test are good ways to test your selection.  "feel' helps, but may mislead. 

 

Well.....I was assuming we are using the correct wheel width and offsets.   ?

 

Depart from the norm and a lot of things will need to be modified.

[kencombs]

1 hour ago, Sam Buchanan said:

 

Well.....I was assuming we are using the correct wheel width and offsets.   ?

 

Depart from the norm and a lot of things will need to be modified.

Never assume.  Especially when dealing with my projects.  I don't think I have ever run 'original equipment'  wheels and tires.  Even my 13 Tundra has aftermarket wheels and 55 series tires.  The futures set for my 56 1/2t are 235/75-15 on 90 Jeep wheels.

 

One can change the character of a vehicle with wheels and tires moreso than any other mod.  Of course, that can be negative as well.  8.50x14s on a 53 chevy 1/2t come to mind as one time I screwed up.  Looked great with those chromed wheels.  Drove terrible!  Back to 6.00x16 front, and 6.50s on the back and it drove fine again.

[Jfleming]

Well to be clear for everyone I am using stock rims and stock size bias ply tires. So, pretty much bone stock. Dealer and factory specs and tips very much apply. 

[Los_Control]

You are 100% fine. Last set of bias ply tire I ran, was on a 1967 Datsun pickup ... I was a tire retreader and found the perfect carcass to retread and use ... This was in the 1980's ... I just laughed how they got flat spots while sitting over night.

It was a 2 mile trip to the highway, and was a womp  womp womp  while getting there, then they warmed up and became round again. Then they actually ran pretty decent. Thats what bias ply tires do.

When you have old bias ply tires, while they look good, the rubber gets hard.  If your tires are 10 years old, they need to be replaced ... Rubber deteriorate as it ages, it gets harder and never softens up. There is a date code stamped on them you can look up the age of your tires.

 

My neighbor has a 54 ford, all original except a roller 302 and a AOD, has wide white bias tires on it.

nice car to drive at local parades, but the tires suck so he does not drive it.

Now it has been sitting 2 years and fuel system needs to be cleaned because he wont drive it.

All because of the old hard bias ply tires.

 

I am just saying, if you are adding 1 psi air pressure here, moving 1/16" alignment there ... you are still chasing ghost.

Was not til the later 50's when they started building decent roads ... Otherwise was all dirt & gravel roads.

For a driver, put some radial tires on it, for a show put the old bias tires on it.

[1950 Special Deluxe]

1 hour ago, Los_Control said:

 

For a driver, put some radial tires on it, for a show put the old bias tires on it.

That’s what I did.

i kept the original rims and mounted some 205 radials on them.

if I am going far, I put them on.

For around town, I have another set of original rims that I painted Red (because I wanted to.) and put some wide white bias ply tires on.

[Sharps40]

On 9/23/2020 at 8:23 AM, Jfleming said:

Well that’s exactly my thoughts. I’m just concerned I’m going to make a huge investment in tires and still be displeased with the handling. I think it’s smarter to ensure the suspension and steering is fully aligned and properly adjusted first. I’d be pretty happy with just a bit of improvement. I’m not looking for precision, just a solid safe feeling of reasonable control

 

So.  Good that you have some free radials to try out.    But first inspect and repair the front suspension and steering gear.   Its 66.  At least much of it is just worn out on a 2000 dollar car and swapping on radials is just chasing phantoms.      After the repairs get it aligned.  Alignment of a worn suspension is wasted effort.   Last....try out the radials .

Edited September 26, 2020 by Sharps40

[Jfleming]

13 hours ago, Sharps40 said:

 

So.  Good that you have some free radials to try out.    But first inspect and repair the front suspension and steering gear.   Its 66.  At least much of it is just worn out on a 2000 dollar car and swapping on radials is just chasing phantoms.      After the repairs get it aligned.  Alignment of a worn suspension is wasted effort.   Last....try out the radials .

I agree. The problems are beyond just tires. Or, were. I’m about to post an update. It’s actually in pretty good shape overall. The suspension parts are mostly new, in part because of me, in part because it was maintained. It had some rust in the floor I addressed already, but I’m the “third” owner. The car was driven by the original owner until their passing in the 90s. Then her son drove it sparingly until 2004 or 2005. The guy I bought it from had it on the road 2006-2008 and then stopped driving it because he has a bel air he spent years restoring. My point is, the car was well cared for, and then used sparingly. It starts right up, runs great and cool, all the options still work (except the radio, the tubes warm up and glow and I think I hear light static but it can’t find a station). I believe the only reason I was able to get it for $2000 was the poor quality of his listing. He was asking 3500 and the “cover photo” on marketplace was of the rusty floors. It was up for a year nearly before I was able to go for it. 

 

 

[Jfleming]

I have another update! I believe I have solved my problems to my satisfaction! I was able to get my car on my father in law’s lift yesterday and grease everything as well as adjust the steering gearbox. It was significantly over-tight and I won’t lie that was my fault from adjusting it without knowing properly how. I now believe a significant portion of my issue was binding and releasing causing an oscillating over correction. I adjusted to the factory no play plus 3/4 turn setting. I may go up one more 1/8 or 1/4 turn because I fear I likely caused extra wear driving it over tightened and should slightly compensate for that. I will lift it again after driving a bit and perform the check in the MTSC: wheel should bind for about 4-4.5 inches in the center of travel. However, hedging aside, the car drives so much better! I was able to go 65 yesterday for the first time, and more importantly, I can now comfortably cruise at 50-55 which is all I wanted. Yes road irregularities still grab the tires but that was never my issue, it was the seemingly uncontrolled wandering. I will be keeping bias plies on it for the foreseeable future, they have 90% tread and are very pliable, no rot, there’s nothing “wrong” with them and they look great so I can’t really bring myself to take them off. I wanted the car to drive as well as it did 60 years ago and I feel I’ve achieved that. I know it would be better with radials but I’m happy with it now. 

[rallyace]

Great news. Now go out and enjoy the fall colors in Upstate NY. Today is going to be the last perfect day for a while.

[knuckleharley]

YOU being happy with it is what matters.

[greg g]

Next Sunday the local AACA, Studebaker, and Pontiac clubs are having a joint fall run.  They are meeting at Flow diner on rt31, then to a collection of antiques in Wampsville, then a tour to a car collection in Onieda, then diner at a place in Oneida. Send me your email via Pm here and I will forward the flyer.

Edited September 27, 2020 by greg g

[allbizz49]

I drive every day on bias tires with no issues. All year, every day. My newest ride is a 59 f100, I drive only old stuff. I have literally 100s of thousands of miles on bias tires with no issues at all. Anybody who has driven early mopars with power steering knows how shitty they steer. Feels like you're on a sub 9 second pass just going 45 down the road. No feel for the road at all. I'm talking daily commute 40 miles, pickinh up parts and going to shows 200 miles away. I don't use my cars as weekend novelties, they're driven like they were 60 years ago. Of course bias tires ride and steer better but if you keep your car maintained,  no reason to not run bias tires.

Edited September 29, 2020 by allbizz49

[Jfleming]

10 hours ago, allbizz49 said:

I drive every day on bias tires with no issues. All year, every day. My newest ride is a 59 f100, I drive only old stuff. I have literally 100s of thousands of miles on bias tires with no issues at all. Anybody who has driven early mopars with power steering knows how shitty they steer. Feels like you're on a sub 9 second pass just going 45 down the road. No feel for the road at all. I'm talking daily commute 40 miles, pickinh up parts and going to shows 200 miles away. I don't use my cars as weekend novelties, they're driven like they were 60 years ago. Of course bias tires ride and steer better but if you keep your car maintained,  no reason to not run bias tires.

You’ve got me beat heartily!! I only drive old cars too, or at least I thought I did! My grand wagoneer is a 1990, although to be fair there’s not a part on it designed later than 1975. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Jfleming