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rugbyjon112

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Can anyone give any advice about changing the master cylinder in my P15 Special Deluxe 2 door sedan. The break/clutch peddle pivot shaft is kicking my butt. I have the clutch spring off to relieve the tension. The clutch peddle is about 1/2 off the shaft, but will not go the rest of the way. I can get it about the same on the break peddle, but can’t get it out of either. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciate. Breaks are the last piece of the puzzle before I can put her back on the road for the first time in over 40 years.

Edited by rugbyjon112
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Do you have the floorboard removed? If so I think you can pull the cylinder out with the pedals attached so you can work with the whole assembly on the work bench. Working from above gives you some better angles than doing everything under the car.  I don't recall a particular gotcha when I swapped out master cylinders....you are probably just dealing with some wear/gunk on the pedal shaft.

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Do you have the U-shaped "locks" or (as I call them) c-clips removed from the end of the shaft? See image attached.

Sometimes you need to pivot/move the pedals back and forth and at the same time apply outward pressure to remove them. The shaft and the inside of the pedals are machined so it is a tight fit.

100_2171.jpg

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18 minutes ago, Sam Buchanan said:

Do you have the floorboard removed? If so I think you can pull the cylinder out with the pedals attached so you can work with the whole assembly on the work bench. Working from above gives you some better angles than doing everything under the car.  I don't recall a particular gotcha when I swapped out master cylinders....you are probably just dealing with some wear/gunk on the pedal shaft.

 

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Unfortunately I did not remove the floors due to the fear of breaking some of the bolts. Sounds like that’s the best way to go though. Short of that, I’ve been think of just rebuilding the original master cylinder in place. 

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Nope, you need to pull the master cylinder to be able to rebuild or replace easily. Removing the floorboard can be a pain if very rusty but worth the effort and can help in the future too. Bolts can be soaked in your choice of rust lubricant. I personally like PB Blaster. Applying heat from a small propane torch until bolts are red hot helps too. Gently apply pressure both ways, back and forth,  and most bolts will loosen. Tapping with a hammer to loosen the rust helps too. If you do break one, just drill out and easy enough to replace with a new bolt and nut. May require two people depending where bolt is. 
 

It’s worth your time to do it right. If the floor is really rotten, maybe it’s time to replace. 

Edited by RobertKB
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12 hours ago, joecoozie said:

Do you have the U-shaped "locks" or (as I call them) c-clips removed from the end of the shaft? See image attached.

Sometimes you need to pivot/move the pedals back and forth and at the same time apply outward pressure to remove them. The shaft and the inside of the pedals are machined so it is a tight fit.

100_2171.jpg

 

12 hours ago, joecoozie said:
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I do. I can get the shaft about 1/2 way off of both peddles, but that’s about it. I’ve been considering just rebuilding the master cylinder in place vs replacing it with the new one I have. 

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1 hour ago, rugbyjon112 said:

I do. I can get the shaft about 1/2 way off of both peddles, but that’s about it. I’ve been considering just rebuilding the master cylinder in place vs replacing it with the new one I have. 

 

Are you trying to remove the shaft from the master cylinder or the pedals from the shaft?

You do not need to remove the shaft from the master cylinder to take it out and rebuild it.

You only need to remove the pedals.

Or if the pedal(s) will NOT come off you can remove the pin that is attached to the master cylinder plunger rod and leave the pedal on. You can move the pedal away from the plunger rod to remove the plunger/boot. That is a way to do it IF you cannot get the pedals off.

As Sam Buchanan said - "bigger hammer" - rubber mallet

The pedals will come off but they need some coaxing.

You can remove the master cylinder with the pedals attached.

It is best, as stated earlier, to remove the M/C from the car to rebuild it.

Once you have the M/C out and if you want to use the new one you have it will be a lot easier to remove the pedal pivot shaft as opposed to having everything on the car.

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13 hours ago, joecoozie said:

 

Are you trying to remove the shaft from the master cylinder or the pedals from the shaft?

You do not need to remove the shaft from the master cylinder to take it out and rebuild it.

You only need to remove the pedals.

Or if the pedal(s) will NOT come off you can remove the pin that is attached to the master cylinder plunger rod and leave the pedal on. You can move the pedal away from the plunger rod to remove the plunger/boot. That is a way to do it IF you cannot get the pedals off.

As Sam Buchanan said - "bigger hammer" - rubber mallet

The pedals will come off but they need some coaxing.

You can remove the master cylinder with the pedals attached.

It is best, as stated earlier, to remove the M/C from the car to rebuild it.

Once you have the M/C out and if you want to use the new one you have it will be a lot easier to remove the pedal pivot shaft as opposed to having everything on the car.

 

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I can’t get the peddles off of the pivot shaft. I’ve removed the plunger and boot and have the peddles out of the way to make it easier to rebuild when the kits gets here later this week. I’m planning to put a new floor in the car over the winter so I’ll replace the master cylinder assembly with the new one while the floors are out. This is my first P15 so it’s all a huge learning curve for me. I appreciate all of the input. 

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RobertKB - the floor extension on the left side is really the only bad spot in the floors. I’m planning to replace the whole front floor over the winter though. I may just wait and do the breaks at that time. 

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You may not be able to get the pedals off because the part that goes through the slots in the floorboard into the car do not have much wiggle room. Another reason you may need to pull floorboard.
 

I have never tried to rebuild a master cylinder in place as I would worry about dirt contamination. I did once pull the master cylinder on my ‘48 by disconnecting all lines, push rod, etc and then the bolts that hold the MC in place. This allowed the MC to drop down with pedals attached. It was very awkward and getting it back in was worse but floorboards did not need to be removed.

 

I still say bite the bullet and remove the floorboard now. 

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