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rugbyjon112

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I recently got my 1947 P15 SD started for the first time in over 40 years. Since then, I’ve noticed a “clicking” when I connect or disconnect the positive cable from the battery (still 6v positive ground system). There is also some arcing when I connect or disconnect the battery. It seems to be coming from the starter/generator area. I haven’t been able to pinpoint it yet. Does anyone have any ideas on a cause?

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could it be the starter selinoid making the clicking sound, just a thought are you disconnecting the battery cable at the battery or at the stater or at the selinoid.

 

Rich Hartung

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Put your hand on the voltage regulator as you remove the Cable from battery, could be the points of the regulator opening as you are disconnecting power to the regulator when disconnecting. You should be able to feel the click.

 

1 easy check,

The spark at the battery  indicates something drawing power if the Ignition is off and no accessories are on, (door open? interior light on?) when it is disconnected.

 

DJ

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DJ - I’ll check the voltage regulator. I didn’t think about that. Should it click or is that an indication that it needs replaced?

 

I didn’t think about the door being opened. I’ll hav me to check that and see if that makes a difference.

 

Update: Just checked. It’s the voltage regulator. Does that mean it’s working properly or that it needs replaced?

Edited by rugbyjon112
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On 7/9/2020 at 3:59 PM, rugbyjon112 said:

Should it click or is that an indication that it needs replaced?

 

 

Really,  my response was just a "hunch"?

I have not had a car with a voltage regulator as yours since I was ? 17 YO.  Too many years past.

Probably something I have read on this forum from others still using the stock type charge system.

I'm one of the weird-O's that prefers 12 volt and 1 wire alternators.

Sorry,

 

DJ

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On 7/9/2020 at 5:59 PM, rugbyjon112 said:

Update: Just checked. It’s the voltage regulator. Does that mean it’s working properly or that it needs replaced?

Seems to me, if the battery was low and needs some charging, good working voltage reg would make contact and wait for the generator to fill up the battery and voltage reg would "unclick"

 

But if your battery was fully charged, the voltage reg would not be calling for juice and it would not "click"

 

So I may be wrong, seems your voltage reg is doing what it should if your battery is low, it just reads the voltage coming in from the battery. Could be your battery is going bad and never fully charged?

 

The spark when you connect the cable seems like a voltage draw from somewhere. Do you have a dome light on with the door open?

I think where you are, you need to pull out your multi meter and start diagnosing the condition of the electrical system, is the battery charged, is their a draw coming from it while engine off ... how much is it charging when running.

 

By all means, if the car starts every time and no battery issues, give it a grease job instead and leave electrics well enough alone  :)

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Los_Control, great information. I’ll give the batter a full charge then check it again. As for the wiring, honestly, it’s about 50/50. My plan is to rewire the car. I’m planning to order period correct wire in the correct colors. As for “starting every time”, I was just able to get the car started for the first time in over 40 years last week. I’m still in the process of hooking everything up so I can let it run and get up to operating temp. That’s my plan for this weekend. I’m planning to install a new fuel tank and lines and the radiator, thermostat, and new hoses. 

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On 7/9/2020 at 5:59 PM, rugbyjon112 said:

DJ - I’ll check the voltage regulator. I didn’t think about that. Should it click or is that an indication that it needs replaced?

 

I didn’t think about the door being opened. I’ll hav me to check that and see if that makes a difference.

 

Update: Just checked. It’s the voltage regulator. Does that mean it’s working properly or that it needs replaced?

    One of the relays in the regulator is a cutout contact that disconnects the battery from the generator when the generator is not charging, like key off/engine off status.  Removing the battery terminal would cause that relay to open.  Not knowing exactly how the relay coil gets power in your specific cars wiring, I don't know if the regulator is working OK or not.  Is it stock or modified?  One of the most common regulator failures in my past experience was the cutout sticking closed when the ignition switch was off.  That caused the battery to drain through the resulting ground through the generator. 

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2 hours ago, kencombs said:

One of the most common regulator failures in my past experience was the cutout sticking closed when the ignition switch was off.  That caused the battery to drain through the resulting ground through the generator. 

This seems to be a common issue on point related systems ... a voltage regulator has 3 sets of points, they open and close as needed.

Just that proper diagnostics need to be done to tell if the points are working as should ... they can be adjusted so they do, if not correct now.

 

Like any points, they need to have a clean flat surface without deep pits. A good old fashioned quality voltage reg will have screws you can fiddle with to adjust.

The newer ones were no screws and you had to bend tangs to get correct adjustment.

 

You need to go through a learning experience and really understand how this system works. I need to do the same. Though I have some experience with them when I was a kid.

 

Fun fact ... My first house I bought that did not have wheels under it ... was built in 1928.

The water heater was built by the Edison electric company. I have to admit the water heater worked perfect, except for when the points would stick. It would then over heat and blow off the pop off safety valve, and flood my basement. I was often out of town for work when this happened.

Today I think a simple adjustment and could have kept that water heater working .... I had no clue as a 30 year old how to adjust it and I scrapped it.

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I don't think it should click until the key is turned to on.  Do some research on how that regulator works.  I think you'll find your battery has been draining especially if you've found it necessary to  continually disconnect the battery.  It may be as simple as the regulator  wired incorrectly also.  The BAT terminal is the only terminal that should be hot with the key off.

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Do you have a schematic? With it you can see what exactly needs power to start and run the engine. Then you can disconnect other circuits that may be causing a drain. Isolating just the starter circuit and engine ignition system to get it running. Once stabilized you'll know those parts and wires are good.  A digital multimeter is incredibly helpful to find the problem here.

 

I was recently troubleshooting an electrical drain. I removed all the wires connected to the out put from the ammeter and start testing each circuit individually.  I was able to isolate a bad brake light pressure switch in my example. It was draining my battery.

 

I agree 100% with the comment above. If sparks are flying when you connect or disconnect a battery cable, that means something is allowing electrons to flow in a circle back to the frame and back to the other battery terminal. The example of a door light is a good one. Other problems could be related to auxiliary systems added over the past 70 years that were wired directly to the battery circuit. Such as a cab heater fan, a radio, fog lamps etc... All that stuff can be stripped away when troubleshooting. Any of those auxiliary systems, or even stock systems could have a bad wire with the covering worn away, allowing electrons to flow back to ground, back to the other battery terminal. If I recall, some stock systems that are wired hot before the ignition switch, directly to a circuit right off the battery include, brake lights, head lights, interior dome light, trunk light, glove box light, and horn. Any of those circuits become suspect when a battery is draining when the key is off.

 

When battery voltage gets low, when the starter is engaged, a solenoid may click. Indicating it is at least working and activating.  Amp flow after the solenoid is engaged is another separate issue. If there are not enough amps to turn a starter around, you may just hear a click, then nothing else.

 

I had a DOH! moment a while back. I was adjusting the opening of my glovebox door gap wider. To allow me to slip in a modern convenient coffee cup holder. I was pleased when I got it to fit, and still be able to click the glove box closed. Soon after my battery was draining when the car was parked. Right away the old brain is trained to jump to the easiest most obvious solution. "Probably my battery getting old and weak" I said to my wife. Most batteries are cheap crap these days right? I slowed down and re-thought things further....The little switch in the glovebox. It turns on a lamp when you open the glove box door. If you adjust the door leaving a gap for a coffee cup holder, the switch remains active, even when the glove box door is closed. So the lamp in there was on, draining my battery 24/7. Hmm... "Here's your sign" I said to myself.

 

 

Edited by keithb7
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Update:  The arcing was happening because the interior light switch was on. The voltage regulator stopped clicking when the battery was completely charged. Seems like it’s working just fine now. I have ordered a new one that I will use to replace the old one when/if it goes bad. Thank you everyone for all the great advice. I’m new to the P15 world, but so far, I’m loving it! Great old cars. 

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