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Carter Ball and Ball carb


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42 minutes ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

Who's Old? Oh, wait, I am.

 

You're not old, you are vintage...?

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I took one of my spare carbs apart tonight. The two shafts are of course different sizes. The odd part I measure the shaft and hole the same. However I put a 1/4 transfer punch in the hole and it's clearly lose. However a 64th bigger and it won't fit. So it's worn less than a 64th? The other interesting thing is the bottom shaft appears to already have bushings. 

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Old, is a relative phase in the lifespan. some are old at 49, some at 65, some never get old, just stif, sore, and slower. At 82, that’s where I am. By the way, ordered a kit for my carter carb, will clean and reassemble it tomorrow! 

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11 hours ago, Young Ed said:

I took one of my spare carbs apart tonight. The two shafts are of course different sizes. The odd part I measure the shaft and hole the same. However I put a 1/4 transfer punch in the hole and it's clearly lose. However a 64th bigger and it won't fit. So it's worn less than a 64th? The other interesting thing is the bottom shaft appears to already have bushings. 

Probably worn unevenly, egg shaped  and that's really hard to measure. Maybe if really careful and steady with a good dial or digital caliper?

 

Are you referring to the choke and throttle shafts as 'two' and bottom?  Just so I'm clear.

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47 minutes ago, kencombs said:

Probably worn unevenly, egg shaped  and that's really hard to measure. Maybe if really careful and steady with a good dial or digital caliper?

 

Are you referring to the choke and throttle shafts as 'two' and bottom?  Just so I'm clear.

Yes choke and throttle are the 2. Both are worn on this one and likely most of the ones I have. 

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12 hours ago, Young Ed said:

So it's worn less than a 64th? The other interesting thing is the bottom shaft appears to already have bushings. 

That is curious, you have to have some play so the shaft will operate ... only way I know to tell if it needs bushings, spray some carb cleaner on the shaft with the engine running.

If it sucks in and changes the idle, then it is sucking air and will cause drive-ability issues.

 

I assume a original carb would get more miles before  it wore out and needed bushed. Say 60k on original and 30k-40k on bushed? Just a opinion backed by no facts.

I wonder if the softer metal bushing can be driven out and replaced with a new one, without enlarging the original drilled hole?

 

Honestly I do not know, my first opinion is you can only bush them once, why I would want to wait until it actually is needed.

Now I am thinking, why not just drive the old bushing out and replace?

Dunno.

 

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3 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

That is curious, you have to have some play so the shaft will operate ... only way I know to tell if it needs bushings, spray some carb cleaner on the shaft with the engine running.

If it sucks in and changes the idle, then it is sucking air and will cause drive-ability issues.

 

I assume a original carb would get more miles before  it wore out and needed bushed. Say 60k on original and 30k-40k on bushed? Just a opinion backed by no facts.

I wonder if the softer metal bushing can be driven out and replaced with a new one, without enlarging the original drilled hole?

 

Honestly I do not know, my first opinion is you can only bush them once, why I would want to wait until it actually is needed.

Now I am thinking, why not just drive the old bushing out and replace?

Dunno.

 

I would think the oillite bushing would actually last longer than the aluminum. I hadn't gotten that far but if you actually managed to drive it far enough to wear out the carb again rebush and keep on truckin

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So, how many miles do you have to go to wear out a shaft or mounting hole?  Will most of use last long enough and drive long enough to wear out a rebuild or even as I did a new Carb?

I suspect not.  So is the ability to rebush a carb something to worry about?  Seems to me if the carb is that worn after one rebuild it is time to look for another core.

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35 minutes ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

So, how many miles do you have to go to wear out a shaft or mounting hole?  Will most of use last long enough and drive long enough to wear out a rebuild or even as I did a new Carb?

I suspect not.  So is the ability to rebush a carb something to worry about?  Seems to me if the carb is that worn after one rebuild it is time to look for another core.

That's the problem. I've got a bucket full of cores that all have lose shafts. I could have bought the tools 3 times over for what I've spent on all these cores. 

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Bet that was some time ago, I went to RA, carb is unavailable.  For my 51 or for a 49 B1B.

 

Any core you find today is likely to have a lot of miles on it and in need of as much work as the one the OP has.

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13 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

I just bought a new rebuilt carb off Rock auto for cheaper then what it would cost to re-bush one ... ya-all figure out what works for you.

A Carter B&B or something else? Looks like I can get the tools and supplies to rebush one for about $50

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What I bought is a Autoline C522 from rockauto,     Autozone also sells  them.

I bought mine a little over a year ago, today they want $156 + $95 core charge.

When I went to Autozone, they had some idea they needed to send my core in first then get me my new carb ... since I was never going to release my old carb for a core, I just went with Rockauto.

 

I think I paid about $114 a year ago and I refused to give up my core. for return.I think core was about $60-$70 dollars then.

I see prices are going up, probably because of grumpy old men like me that will not give up a core ... I see some day when they will be hard to find. ... so I had a extra $100 or 2, and just ordered a new rebuilt carb. Totally pleased with it.

 

This C522 is for a truck, so a manual choke, but is a typical B&B carb, I wonder if the body can be swapped out with a cars automatic choke? I have no Idea if Autoline offers same carb with auto choke for cars. ... Autoline has a page full of available carbs by part #, not sure how you would decipher, since their # matches no oem, you would need to contact them.

 

But yeah, at $160 today, you send your core back, I think is a great deal ... I do not see how a carb rebuilder could do a better job and still afford to feed his family.

Unless he did specialty work on the side and charged you 3 times the price..

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25 minutes ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

Unavailability of a rebuild is the main reason I went to the Empi 2bbl from Landon.  Had to fool with it a bit but driveability now is excellent.

Kits are readily available. Most of it is in fact. Now if I can figure out how to fix this bushing issue I should be set. Also realized after posting earlier I likely only need to do the lower shaft and bushings. 

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Today I cleaned my carburetor and put in new parts kit. Cost of the kit $$32. It’s really amazing the engine ran the insides were so dirty. Tomorrow will instal and see if the engine will restart. 

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I think you got the right handle on this Ed, the upper bushing that are the choke will have minimal effect on the short time this circuit has to remain active...

 

Bad part is the lower shaft and bush...while the bush does wear at a egg shape due to the return spring tension pulling in that direction...do not rule out the wear on the shaft...this is usually minimal and with install of a new bush the gap is greatly decreased and within a value you can live with.   

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On 7/2/2020 at 6:42 PM, Los_Control said:

What I bought is a Autoline C522 from rockauto,     Autozone also sells  them.

I bought mine a little over a year ago, today they want $156 + $95 core charge.

When I went to Autozone, they had some idea they needed to send my core in first then get me my new carb ... since I was never going to release my old carb for a core, I just went with Rockauto.

 

I think I paid about $114 a year ago and I refused to give up my core. for return.I think core was about $60-$70 dollars then.

I see prices are going up, probably because of grumpy old men like me that will not give up a core ... I see some day when they will be hard to find. ... so I had a extra $100 or 2, and just ordered a new rebuilt carb. Totally pleased with it.

 

This C522 is for a truck, so a manual choke, but is a typical B&B carb, I wonder if the body can be swapped out with a cars automatic choke? I have no Idea if Autoline offers same carb with auto choke for cars. ... Autoline has a page full of available carbs by part #, not sure how you would decipher, since their # matches no oem, you would need to contact them.

 

But yeah, at $160 today, you send your core back, I think is a great deal ... I do not see how a carb rebuilder could do a better job and still afford to feed his family.

Unless he did specialty work on the side and charged you 3 times the price..

I buy the old style carter total rebuild kits when ever I can find them at swap meets. These are the ones in the orange boxes and also list the proper carb that they will fit. Yes these are getting harder to find but the have all of the internal small brass parts that you need to rebuild and reservice the older cars.

 

If you study the font parts list of most of thes  early carter B&B rebuild kits you will find a pattern that in most cases most of the parts from one kit can be used in another kit and similar carb.  So when I see what is included and I can matchup the parts and the price is a good price around $25 I purchase the kit that includes all of the parts.  Most of the newer kits being sold on Ebay ripoff do not have the entire rebuildable items and only have the small universal parts and cost usually more.

So if a Master Carb rebuilder should be able to rebuild a carb for a reasonable cost and also do a rebushing on the lower shaft and still make a living and not charge an arm and 2 legs to get the job done.  They are not replacing the main body of the carb just a disassembly, deep cleaning, installing new parts, checking the accelerator plunger movement with the Carter tool and putting it back to gether, maybe testing it on an engine and shipping back to you and you as the owner pay the shipping both directions.

 

I have the Carter Catalog and several other catalogs so I can cross reference to see what parts carry over from each kit.  Yes you have to do some homework and leg work but get the good old parts first and then the new repop parts secod.

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

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On 6/30/2020 at 6:26 PM, Young Ed said:

Not sure what them needing to eat has to do with it. The carb rebuilder needs to eat just as much. I would think any business should be able to state what the do and don't do. I would think a good carb shop would have some machining capability or at least a partnership with someone that can do that work. Otherwise they would have to turn away the work for anything needing bushings.

Mr Rose did put in new bushings in throttle body. 

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36 minutes ago, michaelmarks697@yahoo.com said:

Mr Rose did put in new bushings in throttle body. 

That is good to here what the rebuilder did to the carb.  That is what I would have expected from the rebuilder.

 

But I still have not had any reply back from Mr. rose.  Or they should have on their webpage what a rebuild consists of so you know what you are getting for your money.

 

Rich Hartung

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On 6/30/2020 at 9:23 PM, desoto1939 said:

Yes the company that is providing services need to state what all is included in their services that they are providing weather it be a rebuild or a complete restoration back to factory specifications as close as possible.  Yes a used carb can be brought back only so far to originality.

 

But my point is that I asked the company via an email and thru their website and have never received a reply.  So I did my part to see what I would get back from them and what to expect for a finished product.  If a company is going to advertise via a webpage then they should at least describe what services are included with what part of a restore or a full blown restoration.

 

So I asked the question and some members took a shot at me for asking the question. Ijust wanted to know what I was paying for to have the carb either repaired or restored. What is wrong with that question?

When I go to the Rose Carburetor webpage this is all the information that you get and nothing else so I used their contact us link to do an inquiry about their services.  So what is wrong with asking a question of the company.

 

I am now done with posting any more on this topic.

 

Rich Hartung

 

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The web page is totally lacking, I would agree. As with most web based companies customer satisfaction and ratings are a crap shoot. I recently purchased a rebuild from a company that claimed their carbs were engine tested. Just not on my engine. At the time I didnt have the skill to attempt to rebuild a carb. Thanks to this site and all the mopar geezers here I've learned alot. To which we all thank you

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1 hour ago, michaelmarks697@yahoo.com said:

I think I'm qualified to say "geezer" I'm 70

Me Too

 

And as far as Rich's post, I think he has every  right to ask what is included in a rebuild.  You would expect a professional who advertises as a rebuilder to check, clean and repair or replace any part that is needed  and make sure all the adjustments are set to factory specs. If there is a problem the owner should be contacted to let him know.  Such as the core is too far gone to save., Then options can be discussed.  And if I call or write a supplier or jobber and don't get a timely reply I reassess whether I want to have any dealing with them.

Edited by plymouthcranbrook
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