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1956 daddy/daughter build thread


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It is possible to put all new gaskets and seals in the flathead engine, even new valve guides, without removing the block from the frame...but it's easier to get the engine re-sealed and spiffed up if it's out of the truck.  I've rebuilt flatheads in two trucks, and if I wasn't standing on my head, I was crawling underneath always needing more room to work.  I got 10k out of each engine before main seal and timing chain seals that I couldn't access leaked so bad that I didn't want to drive them anymore for fear of doing any damage (along with wiring issues on one and cooling problems on the other).

 

But if this engine is running and not making any clicking, chirping, rattling or grinding noises, then it can be cleaned up, re-sealed and slicked up on a budget.  The cast iron block can be cleaned and painted with a foam brush without overspray, except for the back of the block that no one sees.  The head can be pulled off if you want to replace the head gasket and make it pretty the same as the block.  Any carbon buildup can be cleaned off, and you'll see right away if it's burning oil.  Head removal allows a visual inspection of the block bores and valves' condition to see if you've got a serious problem lurking or are good to continue.

 

Rustoleum makes decent paint for rusty metal.  I have followed the instructions on their red oxide primer and aluminum top coat to paint oil pans and castings, and they have held up very well after a couple of decades.  Cleaning per instructions, as well as painting within their temperature and re-coating guidelines, makes a big difference in quality and durability.

 

It might be helpful to make lists of what comes off the engine block so that they can be used not only for installation but for planning cleanup repair and painting.  Spray painting can be fun but messy...what better way to learn the joys of wet sanding than on smaller parts, painted by foam brush but wet sanded between coats to give just as smooth of a finish...

 

It would be a good idea to verify what year flathead that is in the truck...this is important to determine which gasket set you need, as there are critical changes to the rear main seal design, timing cover seal, etc.  I recall having leftover parts from gasket sets back in the 90s that I didn't find out where they went until I found info on this site's predecessor back around 2000...most of those parts were not used on my particular engine, but some were, like the distributor shaft seal...OOPS :rolleyes:

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52 minutes ago, JBNeal said:

It is possible to put all new gaskets and seals in the flathead engine, even new valve guides, without removing the block from the frame...but it's easier to get the engine re-sealed and spiffed up if it's out of the truck.  I've rebuilt flatheads in two trucks, and if I wasn't standing on my head, I was crawling underneath always needing more room to work.  I got 10k out of each engine before main seal and timing chain seals that I couldn't access leaked so bad that I didn't want to drive them anymore for fear of doing any damage (along with wiring issues on one and cooling problems on the other).

 

But if this engine is running and not making any clicking, chirping, rattling or grinding noises, then it can be cleaned up, re-sealed and slicked up on a budget.  The cast iron block can be cleaned and painted with a foam brush without overspray, except for the back of the block that no one sees.  The head can be pulled off if you want to replace the head gasket and make it pretty the same as the block.  Any carbon buildup can be cleaned off, and you'll see right away if it's burning oil.  Head removal allows a visual inspection of the block bores and valves' condition to see if you've got a serious problem lurking or are good to continue.

 

Rustoleum makes decent paint for rusty metal.  I have followed the instructions on their red oxide primer and aluminum top coat to paint oil pans and castings, and they have held up very well after a couple of decades.  Cleaning per instructions, as well as painting within their temperature and re-coating guidelines, makes a big difference in quality and durability.

 

It might be helpful to make lists of what comes off the engine block so that they can be used not only for installation but for planning cleanup repair and painting.  Spray painting can be fun but messy...what better way to learn the joys of wet sanding than on smaller parts, painted by foam brush but wet sanded between coats to give just as smooth of a finish...

 

It would be a good idea to verify what year flathead that is in the truck...this is important to determine which gasket set you need, as there are critical changes to the rear main seal design, timing cover seal, etc.  I recall having leftover parts from gasket sets back in the 90s that I didn't find out where they went until I found info on this site's predecessor back around 2000...most of those parts were not used on my particular engine, but some were, like the distributor shaft seal...OOPS :rolleyes:

Well that's good news, thanks for the info. It was running good with no issues, just ha some oil leaks. According to the number on the block it is a 1954-56 engine, although unknown at this point whether it is a 228 or 251. I'm assuming it's a 228 but will confirm when I pull the head off and measure the stroke I guess. Once I determine the engine, I will order the gaskets I need. Rustoleum overhaul here I come. :)

 

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10 hours ago, sluggish01 said:

Well that's good news, thanks for the info. It was running good with no issues, just ha some oil leaks. According to the number on the block it is a 1954-56 engine, although unknown at this point whether it is a 228 or 251. I'm assuming it's a 228 but will confirm when I pull the head off and measure the stroke I guess. Once I determine the engine, I will order the gaskets I need. Rustoleum overhaul here I come. :)

 

No need to pull the head to determine the stroke. There is a pipe plug over cylinder #6 which when removed allows you to measure the stroke by inserting a long enough rod that rest on the piston top. Rotate engine and measure how much the rod moves up and down.

 

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Got much of the engine cleaned up tonight and some parts into the varsol tank. Got a list of goodies I plan to order in the next couple days, hopefully I can get some of it shipped during this COVID-19 era. 

 

I searched through tons of build pages on here and scoured the internet for a power steering conversion/setup but came up empty. There must be someone who has put power steering on one of these trucks. Can anyone chime in on this?

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If it's running OK (no coolant in the oil, no oil in the coolant, no blue smoke or white smoke on startup), I wouldn't pull the head, it's fairly heavy to lift out and you'll have to clean off the gasket material carefully and possibly resurface it before reinstalling, IMHO. You could double check with a compression test (wet and dry)?

 

-Roland

 

I mentioned the head being difficult to pull, because when I pulled mine the engine was still in the truck and fenders and radiator were still in and I had no helper. And I had to have mine resurfaced. I didn't realize that you had everything off the truck!

Edited by minicooper
Not sure my post was helpful
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1 hour ago, minicooper said:

If it's running OK (no coolant in the oil, no oil in the coolant, no blue smoke or white smoke on startup), I wouldn't pull the head, it's fairly heavy to lift out and you'll have to clean off the gasket material carefully and possibly resurface it before reinstalling, IMHO. You could double check with a compression test (wet and dry)?

 

-Roland

 

I mentioned the head being difficult to pull, because when I pulled mine the engine was still in the truck and fenders and radiator were still in and I had no helper. And I had to have mine resurfaced. I didn't realize that you had everything off the truck!

Funny you mention that. I made the decision yesterday not to pull the head. It’s not leaking,  oil and coolant are clean so I’m just going to clean up the rest of it and put it back together. 

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Has anyone looked into removing the leaf springs and putting coilovers on these trucks? Just curious if it was worth the effort or the cost. Since mine won't ever be used to haul loads and it's really not heavier than a car, thought it might be an option.

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I have not done coilovers, but if you want a smoother ride and lower stance, you can remove leaf springs from the pack. I removed 3 starting at the second from the bottom and remove every other one until your ride height is where you want it. I believe I have 4 leafs left. Free and easy...

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13 hours ago, sluggish01 said:

Has anyone looked into removing the leaf springs and putting coilovers on these trucks? Just curious if it was worth the effort or the cost. Since mine won't ever be used to haul loads and it's really not heavier than a car, thought it might be an option.

 

If the springs are in bad shape or worn out, Eaton Springs carries replacements, with options, for our trucks.

https://www.eatondetroitspring.com/leaf-springs/

 

springs.jpg

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2 hours ago, 59bisquik said:

I have not done coilovers, but if you want a smoother ride and lower stance, you can remove leaf springs from the pack. I removed 3 starting at the second from the bottom and remove every other one until your ride height is where you want it. I believe I have 4 leafs left. Free and easy...

Been meaning to ask you:  do you have a pic before or after of you springs?  I have a 56 and would like to tell if the spring packs are factory or modified, (dearched or leaves pulled).  I suspect it has leaves removed just judging from its' stance.  But, it is possible they are just sagging from age, like me.

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59 minutes ago, 59bisquik said:

The first pic is with worn out factory springs and added overloads. Notice they are pretty flat anyway.

 

 

 

The second is a new set of springs with 3 leafs removed.

 

 

Thanks for the pics.  Mine still has the bed on it and I didn't realize how little arch there is in the frame.  Sure not a lot of travel left after removing leafs..  Have you had any issues with bottoming?

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Nope... I drive mine quite a bit but only carry lawn chairs and an ice chest. I also run the Willys shorter shackles. The front spring have only 1 leaf removed and are flat or even arched the opposite direction.

 

BTW, a shackle flip in the back will give about the same drop and can be done with a full spring pack if carrying a load is a concern. You only have to trim a little of the bed side under the fenders. I did that originally but prefer the smoother ride.

 

Rear Lower 1.jpeg

Edited by 59bisquik
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  • 10 months later...

Can't believe it's been so long since I was here but thought it was time to update. The plans have change a bit over the last several months and progress is slow(COVID made me crazy busy at work) but here goes. It has been completely disassembled and body and chassis have been blasted and primed. hopefully get some paint on the chassis in the next week. Everything is in great shape with very few surprises once stripped down. A couple minor body repairs needed but no rot anywhere so that was very lucky. Found a painter for the body who does nice work. Hopefully I can piece it all back together without ruining his handiwork. The motor has been cleaned and painted, only to decide that it is not going to be used. I've decided that the truck needs a hemi so I'm now on the hunt for that. I picked up an explorer rear end so that needs perches welded on and then installed. I will get a few pics this weekend when I get back in the shop.

 

 

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Well the engine has been purchased and will be coming home for mockup on Friday. Sorry to offend any purists on here but I ended up purchasing a 6.4 Hemi from a wrecked car. I'm sure it has created a pile more work for me but I couldn't pass it up. My question is this. What kind of work do you guys figure I will need to do to the frame to keep it from twisting like a candy cane, or is it pretty stout from the factory. I gotta think that going from about 100hp to 470hp, some mods will be required to the frame. Will I need to box the whole thing, part of it, none of it? Some words of wisdom from the experts would help here. 

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beauty of this site is that both purists and non-purists are here.  I too am in the non-purist area, but not putting the power you are, but a very heavy(1400lb) engine into a 1.5 ton frame.  I strategically boxed certain sections(engine mounts, trans cross member, drive shaft hangar bearing(yet to be done), and possibly rear axle mounts).  I believe the frames are very stiff as evident in the frame crack on mine(as well as exterior doubler c-channel), right behind the cab.  I think it is really a choice but it will be a trade off of frame stiffness vs ride quality and I think the strength of the steel in the factory frame all play together.  Others have put in big displacement engines but do not recall if they reused the stock frame or did a frame swap.  I chose to box areas in as it also makes making engine mounts easier.

 

Personally I am comfortable with the boxing of my frame in the areas it needed it and Ill let the rest go.  Given I dont plan to haul much, and my little diesel is only around 500lb-ft of torque max, it shouldn't twist the frame too much, but time will tell.

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  • 2 months later...

Decided to order an independent front suspension setup from TCI so that should hopefully be here within the next month. Got the rear suspension and axle cut out last night and the SRT rear cradle slid into place. Still need to secure it into place but the ride height is where I like it. Going to hang a fender on just to double check before finally securing cradle in place. Will get more pics when I have the box and fender temporarily hung on there.

 

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image.png.7aac59c48bb5b4ce56309df1e14cfd04.png

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Howdy

 

Cool truck! I just read the whole thread. I think your problem with determining rear axle gear ratio could be that when you do the spin and count trick on an open (one legger) rear you need to keep one tire on the ground or else the tire you are reading isn’t really locked to the driveshaft.

 

I suspect with the big hemi you will want a dana 60 or aftermarket 9” behind there anyway. I did a 512 stroker big block with manual valvebody 727 in mine but I came up with what I thought was a really smart budget alternative for my rear axle.

 

The mopar 9.25” axle came behind ramchargers in nice ratios and you can find them cheap with sure grip or throw a locker in them. They are strong. They come in widths that work in our trucks. They come with 5x4.5” bolt circle axles. 
 

The weaknesses of the axle are the C-clip design which can allow the whole axle to slide out if the clip or inner stub breaks. I solved this problem by throwing a set of disc brakes on from a 90s zj jeep grand cherokee. If the clip fails the caliper will retain the wheel/axle assembly and allow for a safe breakdown. The zj brakes bolt right up you just need to open the inner circle diameter of the caliper bracket with a die grinder. The bolt pattern is the same and they didn’t need any shimming to just use off the shelf zj rotors and calipers. 
 

The other weakness of the 9.25” is the pinion depth is set by a crush sleeve. With a lot of power or holeshots they can self clearance- that’s why all the 2000s 1500 ram trucks that used a modern 9.25 with a different width and wheel bolt pattern are famous for clunking when they go into gear. This problem can be solved by using a shim kit instead of the crush sleeve to set pinion depth. Then you get the backlash right and it stays that way. 
 

You might also want to retrofit modern or muscle car era leaf spring mounts to get away from the skinny springs our trucks came with. Then you can use off the shelf, repro, or even super stock springs. A cool feature of the muscle car era SS leafs is that unlike brand X they had a shorter front spring section in front of the axle mounting point, making them act more like stiff trailing arms and resisting spring wrap and wheel hop when you get aggressive. 
 

So about your hemi- are you doing the complete harness with EFI? Or an expensive aftermarket intake with a holley carb? Maybe a complete aftermarket timing and EFI system? I did the sniper and hyperspark setup on my 512 but kept a retrofitted set of autometer gauges in my dash so it doesn’t look too much like a spaceship inside. I had a 6.1 6spd srt8 challenger. It was a lot of fun but I wouldn’t give it to a 16 year old. At least a stickshift will require enough attention to keep her mind on driving. 
 

I don’t know anything about your IFS setup but I assume it will have easy steering, great brakes, and a smooth ride. 
 

Feel free to ask if I can help you out in any way and good luck with your project it looks super cool!

 

-radar

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Oops somehow I missed the SRT IRS install. 
 

My ‘09 srt8 6.1 rear was kinda great and I also kind of viewed it as an underbuilt computerized timebomb. 
 

It would easily go into violent wheelhop if I didn’t get a launch just right with my 6spd. Also from what I understand (could be wrong) the limited slip and three levels of traction control were all done by computer controlling the brakes using wheel speed sensors and piggybacking the ABS system. 
 

I’m a wrench and a fabricator but I’m glad I sold my srt8 before I broke anything expensive. 
 

I’m interested in hearing your take on all this srt rear stuff and seeing your solutions. 

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  • 2 months later...

So my front clip setup is set to arrive next week and I’ve been kind of stalled and unmotivated until then so now I’m getting excited. Quick question. I have the original front axle setup that a guy is interested in buying. What is a fair selling price for something like that. It has all new king pins, bushings, ball joints etc and has been blasted and primed. 

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That solid front axle sounds like its ready to run. Minimum would be getting the money back for parts and something for axle itself. May want to tack a little on for your labour too. 
its all about you being happy with the price and buyer getting his money’s worth. 
 

I got my 360 in,and im real happy with it. Decent on highway too. 
lots of hurdles to overcome,hope yours isnt overly complicated. 

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