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Brake master cylinder - filling method and more!!!


johnjnr

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Hi Guys,

 

Just starting to go through my sons and I, 1940 Dodge Coupe to see whats needs replacing etc and as it has no brakes, i wanted to check the system out. How do you top up the Master Cyclinder? Im thinking a long neck funnel from the engine bay area or is there another way. Im new to these old beauties and after a very dormant winter have finally got energy to start this project off. 

 

The car i have originates from South Africa and is a D15, aux coupe, 1940.

 

At present it doesn't run and hasn't for approx 15 years. Am currently pouring some "Marvel Mystery Oil" in through the spark plug holes down into the piston bores to try and release them. Will also be pulling petrol tank to check for any corrosion etc. We have removed the radiator with some effort but now have free access to the front of the block.

 

Any pointers from people on here would be greatly appreciated as i see i'm going to be learning alot especially on a car that was never in the UK. 

 

Added some pictures just to wet the appetite.

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If the engine is stuck, i wouldnt attempt to turn it by the crank balancer bolt. Instead, i would remove inspection cover below flywheel. Also pull cylinder head. If it has a copper gasket, it can be reused. 
this is exactly what i did with my 218 back in early october. Its been running, quite nicely i might add. 
 

using a pry bar, and the teeth on the ring gear i was able to get engine to turn, a little each way, more and more until i got a full revolution. Then i used the starter to spin it some. Starter wont put up with extended cranking, so keep that in mind. 
head had to be off in order to get valves moving,

penetrating oil, roll it over and a few taps with the hammer to close valve. Once valves opened and closed on their own,i replaced head and checked compression. 
it was quite low. Tried starting it anyway. It fired and ran with some coaxing. 
now, it starts easily, and has great oil pressure. 
 

take your time, go easy on the starter. 

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Welcome to the forum, lots of good folk and info here, as Sniper says there's an small inspection panel in floor under the drivers feet you can remove for topping up the master cylinder. 

If the cars been sat for 15 years with no brakes i wouldn't bother putting any brake fluid in as you'll probably end up with a puddle on the floor. At the very least i'd be pulling the wheels and brake drums off and putting new seals in the wheel/master cylinders stripping the brakes shoes off and make sure everything is moving as it should, check the brake pipes for corrosion too while your there.

 

Have you a workshop manual for the car?

 

Great looking car you have there, whereabouts in the U.K. are you?

 

 

Regards...... Simon.

 

Edited by 61farnham
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You can be almost certain the entire brake system is corroded beyond repair. Brake fluid adsorbs moisture and 15 years is usually a death sentence.

 

Instead of trying to repair the brakes piece meal your time and money would be better spent just stripping everything out and replacing the entire system so you will have brakes that are reliable for many years. A package with everything you need is available from vendors----I would have been ahead doing this on my P15 instead of trying to replace stuff one or two items at a time.....lesson learned.   :)

 

Very nice car, it will be worth whatever effort is needed to put it back on the road!

Edited by Sam Buchanan
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For a beginner, you may be anxious to just get the engine running and the car somewhat drivable. This is natural to want to focus on the engine. However, there are a couple vital systems in the car that also must be working properly. Even just to get it around the block for a brief test drive.  The brake system is a big one.  I agree with what others have said, from the master cylinder to each bleed screw on each wheel, restore everything. You may or may not, need to order everything brand new. Depending how bad the corrosion is. Depending on your budget, tools, skill, time, and desire, you may be able to clean up cylinders and master cylinder for re-use. Cutting, shaping, and flaring your own brake lines can be fun and rewarding if you are an odd-duck and like this old stuff. ?

 

When we talk about the brake system work we generally include:

- A drum puller get the rear drums off. 

- Inspect all 4 drums. Turn or replace if needed.

- Remove  disassemble & inspect rear wheel cylinders x2. Rebuild or replace.

- New solid brake lines across both sides of rear axle. Replace.

- Rear flex line hose from frame to rear axle distribution block. Replace.

- Steel brake line running along side the frame from front distribution block to rear flex line. Replace.

- Master cylinder removal, disassembly, inspect, rebuild or replace.

- Front solid brake lines from brake light switch block to each front wheel. Replace.

- Front flex line hoses and crush washers x2. Replace with new.

- Wheel cylinders x2 at both front wheels. Remove, disassemble, clean, inspect, rebuild or replace.

- Brake shoes. Likely have had brake fluid dripping on them.  Remove all. Order all, new. Arc shoes to drum as needed & install all new.

- Re-install drums & perform major brake shoe set up and adjustment. A concentric tool aides tremendously in getting this close to correct.

- Fill master and bleed brakes. Starting at furthest wheel from master. End at closest wheel to master

- Inspect all connections for possible leaks.

- Set free play at brake pedal to master cylinder

- Test drive

 

While you are in there, the with the front drums off, it's good time to clean and grease front wheel bearings. The rears are little more complicated but can be accessed. At the least, with a good sized syringe full of grease, you can adequately grease up the rear outer axle bearings.  You may find axle seals leaking. Then you are going in deeper. Also, not a bad job to do. You're in that far, if the diff housing is oily, may as well slide out the axles and reseal the diff carrier housing. It compounds... ;)  Settle in for the experience and you and your son will learn a lot.

 

 

 

 

Edited by keithb7
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10 hours ago, 61farnham said:

Welcome to the forum, lots of good folk and info here, as Sniper says there's an small inspection panel in floor under the drivers feet you can remove for topping up the master cylinder. 

If the cars been sat for 15 years with no brakes i wouldn't bother putting any brake fluid in as you'll probably end up with a puddle on the floor. At the very least i'd be pulling the wheels and brake drums off and putting new seals in the wheel/master cylinders stripping the brakes shoes off and make sure everything is moving as it should, check the brake pipes for corrosion too while your there.

 

Have you a workshop manual for the car?

 

Great looking car you have there, whereabouts in the U.K. are you?

 

 

Regards...... Simon.

 

Hi Simon,

 

I will take on board the comments received. No rush in getting it roadworthy at present but with the current health situation we can spend a little extra time on it. Im in Hertfordshire. 

 

For parts have you had to buy most parts from USA or is there a little treasure shop in the UK that youve found?

 

I will update here when ive made more progress.

 

John

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11 hours ago, johnjnr said:

Hi Simon,

 

I will take on board the comments received. No rush in getting it roadworthy at present but with the current health situation we can spend a little extra time on it. Im in Hertfordshire. 

 

For parts have you had to buy most parts from USA or is there a little treasure shop in the UK that youve found?

 

I will update here when ive made more progress.

 

John

 

My first port of call for parts is https://www.rockauto.com/ they have the basics and quick shipping to the UK, not found any treasure shop this side unfortunately.

A couple of other suppliers are https://www.oldmoparts.com/  and https://www.robertsmotorparts.com/store/  .

 

Nos parts turn up on US ebay now and again but prices vary greatly and patience is required there if your looking for something specific. 

 

There are still companies in the UK who will reline your brake shoes if that's necessary, google to find someone local to you.

 

The most important thing you can buy is a proper factory issue repair manual for your car, reprints are available but genuine ones can be regularly found on US ebay at sensible prices.

 

I'm down in Hampshire on the south coast.

 

Any questions you have post them up here and someone will have an answer, it's a great forum unlike some i'm on.

 

Look forward to seeing your progress.. 

 

Regards...... Simon.

 

 

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I just recently did the brakes on my 1950 special deluxe. I recommend replacing everything except maybe the hard brake lines. I also recommend buying parts from someone that specializes in these old dodges and plymouths. I have bought a lot of parts that have had fitment issues or just plain wrong from ebay. You have a very cool car!

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1 hour ago, Donny318 said:

I just recently did the brakes on my 1950 special deluxe. I recommend replacing everything except maybe the hard brake lines. I also recommend buying parts from someone that specializes in these old dodges and plymouths. I have bought a lot of parts that have had fitment issues or just plain wrong from ebay. You have a very cool car!

 

I've had my share of incorrect brake parts show up from specialty suppliers too. I suppose there is a chance that sometime over the past 82 years someone may have swapped in brake parts from other period mopar cars. The parts fit but are not exactly the same as the when new. ie, different bore sizes of cylinder, different lengths of master cylinder pistons.

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