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factory 2bbl carb installation


kencombs

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For those of you who have seen one of these:  Did the fuel inlet face forward?  Backward, to the side, or???

 

Reason I ask: I had been planning on a dual carb install, but just changed my mind.  I'll send my Offy manifold off to someone who wants to deal with it.  I'm just going to adapt a 2 bbl.  I have a couple that were original to a 273 in 65-66 that would be near ideal I think.  Except that the throttle linkage in on the inside if installed with the fuel inlet forward as is normal for most setups. 

I understand that the reason for that is to prevent fuel starvation or flooding on acceleration or deceleration. 

 

If I turned this carb around, placing the throttle linkage on the outside, it would match the linkage that was on my engine, but the fuel inlet would face the rear.

 

The manifold I'll use is a 56 plymouth so it has the hot air tube fitted through one of the exhaust runners the allow use of the a hot air choke system.  I actually have two carbs, one intended to be used with remote, manifold exhaust crossover mounted, choke.  The other has a 'normal' hot air choke.

 

Would you do that?  or use a throttle cable and install facing forward?  or look for another carb.   IOW, is the fuel inlet direction a real issue on our old trucks?  Or only if one is driving much more spiritedly that I plan to?

 

 

Edited by kencombs
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On 1/13/2020 at 3:12 PM, kencombs said:

For those of you who have seen one of these:  Did the fuel inlet face forward?  Backward, to the side, or???

 

Reason I ask: I had been planning on a dual carb install, but just changed my mind.  I'll send my Offy manifold off to someone who wants to deal with it.  I'm just going to adapt a 2 bbl.  I have a couple that were original to a 273 in 65-66 that would be near ideal I think.  Except that the throttle linkage in on the inside if installed with the fuel inlet forward as is normal for most setups. 

I understand that the reason for that is to prevent fuel starvation or flooding on acceleration or deceleration. 

 

If I turned this carb around, placing the throttle linkage on the outside, it would match the linkage that was on my engine, but the fuel inlet would face the rear.

 

The manifold I'll use is a 56 plymouth so it has the hot air tube fitted through one of the exhaust runners the allow use of the a hot air choke system.  I actually have two carbs, one intended to be used with remote, manifold exhaust crossover mounted, choke.  The other has a 'normal' hot air choke.

 

Would you do that?  or use a throttle cable and install facing forward?  or look for another carb.   IOW, is the fuel inlet direction a real issue on our old trucks?  Or only if one is driving much more spiritedly that I plan to?

 

 


Here are pics from my '56 Suburban 230 with the "Power pack" setup - Stromberg 2bbl, and larger intake manifold opening, rated at 132hp. I haven't changed anything from the previous owner (only had it a month).  BTW, it feels about 50% stronger, better acceleration than my 218 with dual carbs that I have in the woodie, which I expect is doing about 100hp.

IMG_7559.JPG

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Thanks for the pic.  I can see the throttle linkage difference and seems easy enough to do. I'll probably be using a Carter, but the only real difference is the fuel inlet location.

 

I think I'll try to mod a one bbl manifold, to take a 2 hole carb.  Cut the carb base area flat and attach a 1" aluminum plate using 4 recessed screws near the corners.  It looks like the manifold is thick walled enough to grind most, if not all, of the 2 to 1 taper in the cast iron, not squeeze it in the adapter.

 

Thanks again.

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Good deal. If you don't have the 2bbl yet, for my current build of my '52 Suburban I decided to see if I could coax a few more hp from my 218, considering that I will be running A/C and AT (200R) so I decided to go with Tom Langdon's  Tom Langdon's Stovebolt  new 2BBL 32/36 carb (Weber clone) on the stock single intake. It uses a carb adapter, which he also sells.. I also purchased his split cast iron headers, which should help with the breathing. I'm also doing other things to reduce the parasitic losses, such as ditching the stock fan/pulley setup and going with an electric fan, etc. I'd be interested in your progress on enlarging the 1bbl hole to a larger size as it would obviously breathe even better.

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The 1-bbl Stromberg on my '49 1-ton has the fuel inlet perpendicular to the engine, and I was struck at how little trouble it had on warm starts as compared to the 1-bbl Carter with the fuel filter above the intake manifold on my '48 1/2 ton.  I plan on going with a 2bbl carb with adapter on the factory 1bbl intake manifold, with the side fuel supply to reduce hard starting warm starts...preliminary research on the Stovebolt page sold me on this plan as those with successful setups liked the power and simplicity of a single carburetor to adjust and maintain...can't give any details yet as all I have are a general plan and measurements that showed that it would all fit under the hood, too many interruptions to deal with since I dragged The Flatbed home...maybe next year... :rolleyes:

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I wish I had known about the factory Bendix-Stromberg WW 2 barrel factory setup years ago.

I was using that carb on another car at the time and could not believe how well it worked.

Chrysler used these WWs on some of their V8s as well. Some folks love the Stromberg 97, (so much so they are being reproduced). I went to a carburetor guy (years ago) who actually made 97s under license and he put me on to the WW. He said they were much better.

 

I've talked to Tom Langdon about his Weber/Motorcraft progressive linkage carbs and he's pretty positive about them. Drivability is what he's concerned about and progressive linkage carbs almost guarantee you'll be happy. However, my experience with the WW makes me rather positive on them. So my plan is to go with his carbs (cause he's already worked out the kinks) then after I've had some experience with his setup try my WWs and see which I like better. (I think the bases are very close so its an easy swap)

His point is that with progressive linkage carbs you are running on two of four barrels most of the time and when you put your foot in it you get all four.

Where as two direct linkage two barrel carbs run on four barrels all the time. Obviously economy could suffer and there might be flat spots.

In the race car the engine was so small fuel economy was never an issue and I never had a flat spot or hesitation. When we used a Weber the float would hang up (or something) and the engine would die from fuel starvation, a very embarrassing occurrence.

 

If I had the factory 2 barrel I'd stay with it, even over a two carb manifold.

If you want to play with the jets in the WW, the jet wrench and the main jets are the same as a 97 which means they are readily available. They made so many of them kits are available too. eBay has NIB carbs for sale as well for about half the price of a new 97.

Just my humble opinion.

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Not sure if i have enough pictures. Will post what i have. 
bottom plate, single hole with 2 mounting holes. 1” strips for the box. 4 bolts welded to bottom of top plate for mounting carb. 
fuel line facing rear,and a z bar  linkage to carb. Still working on automatic choke,the electric will suffice for now. Wired direct to 12v ignition source. 
will grab a couple more photos tomorrow. 
 

to add, the two nuts that hold adapter to  manifold are inside the adapter. If nuts were to loosen, they cant fall in intake as the studs almost touch adapter top plate. 
still working out the bugs, needed it to run so i can move it. It runs decent, started in below 0 farenheit temps. 

AD30B7C2-22BE-4E09-BB28-257C09D40857.jpeg

8EE369C0-63DE-4189-8B1D-5661200060CC.jpeg

0E313EAF-4B85-40D8-86F1-DFC3BFD88F74.jpeg

EDBCC89C-9DB3-4353-A07C-C2126DF534FE.jpeg

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I also use a single 2 barrel weber 32/36 carb from langdons with his split headers and my '39 business coupe runs great!  Cruise at 65 -70 on the freeway 30 miles each way to work with stock 3.9 rear end and the 3 speed tranny.  Accelerates with regular traffic just fine, very responsive.  Jets that came with it worked ok but I put in larger idle, primary, and secondary jets, which made a huge difference in response and power compared to the stock 1 barrel.  Always starts warm or cold, uses manual choke.  I have put on 30k miles with this set up in 4 years.

20190131_084245.jpg

Edited by Polsonator2
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Thanks for all the info and options.  Lots of guys rave about the Holley Weber or original Weber.  I have decided not to do dual carbs of any kind.  Even though the Weber design was mostly used on 2 liter or less engines, I've read that it is rated at 285/330CFM, depends on who you read.  If using just one of these, how does the power compare to stock?  Gas mileage should be great.

 

I have a couple of Carter BBDs, one  that came from a 273 and one from a 318.  Same size, but I'm sure jetted differently.  I was sorta set on the 273 carb.   Maybe I'll try that and swap to another 2bbl if not happy.

 

Any one know if the BBD, Stromberg and Weber share the same mounting pattern?

Edited by kencombs
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For my 32/36 weber, I just used the adapter that Langdons sells.  I think its only like $17-20 bucks. It bolted right onto the stock intake manifold that held my 1 barrel carter carb. I had to do a little filing on the sides of the adapter so I could tighten the bolts down.  As I mentioned in my prior post the power gain felt was a lot stronger than the stock carb.  I think the smaller primary works better at acceleration up to 2500 - 3000 rpms, then the secondary opens up after that. I am of the opinion that 2 carbs is more cfm than a plymouth 6 needs but I have never drove one with 2 carbs so not sure how they perform on the street.  Anyone on the forum with a stock 1 barrel able to keep up with modern street traffic from stop light to stop light and cruise at 65 - 70 with the stock rear end and no overdrive?  Before I updated to the Weber I was always worried about keeping up with traffic or merging onto the freeway.  I no longer have this issue.

Edited by Polsonator2
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On 1/15/2020 at 6:08 PM, Tooljunkie said:

Not sure if i have enough pictures. Will post what i have. 
bottom plate, single hole with 2 mounting holes. 1” strips for the box. 4 bolts welded to bottom of top plate for mounting carb. 
fuel line facing rear,and a z bar  linkage to carb. Still working on automatic choke,the electric will suffice for now. Wired direct to 12v ignition source. 
will grab a couple more photos tomorrow. 
 

to add, the two nuts that hold adapter to  manifold are inside the adapter. If nuts were to loosen, they cant fall in intake as the studs almost touch adapter top plate. 
still working out the bugs, needed it to run so i can move it. It runs decent, started in below 0 farenheit temps. 

AD30B7C2-22BE-4E09-BB28-257C09D40857.jpeg

8EE369C0-63DE-4189-8B1D-5661200060CC.jpeg

0E313EAF-4B85-40D8-86F1-DFC3BFD88F74.jpeg

EDBCC89C-9DB3-4353-A07C-C2126DF534FE.jpeg

Please pardon the slight tangent I'm taking here, but how did you cut the large holes in the plates shown in these photos?  I recently had to cut large holes (2-1/8" dia and 1-1/2" dia) in some 1/4" and 1/2" steel plate (just mild steel, nothing fancy) and I didn't have a good way to do it.  Though I knew it probably wouldn't work, I tried hole saws, and yep, sure enough, it didn't work.  The hole saws would only penetrate slightly past the scale layer on the surface and would then stop cutting.  I tried using oil and then water to cool them, but nothing helped.  This was in a drill press.  I ended up drilling a series of tiny holes around the circumference of each of these big holes (again in the drill press) and then using my Dremel with cutoff wheels to cut between these small holes in order to finish the removal of the big holes.  Definitely not an efficient way to do it, and left a very jagged edge inside each big hole.  Thanks for any guidance you might offer.

 

Back on topic:  I find this carburetor topic interesting, as I have two of Langdon's carbs that I plan to install on a Nicson dual-carb intake manifold on my 265 flathead, whenever I finally get that thing done.

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I used hole saw. Drill press on slowest speed. Have to use ones of fair quality. If you heat them up they stop cutting instantly. 
they need to be for steel. I have used mine to cut many holes. I could go into the various hole sawing techniques to get decent results, but all that can be found on youtube. 

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1 hour ago, Tooljunkie said:

I used hole saw. Drill press on slowest speed. Have to use ones of fair quality. If you heat them up they stop cutting instantly. 
they need to be for steel. I have used mine to cut many holes. I could go into the various hole sawing techniques to get decent results, but all that can be found on youtube. 

Thanks.  I did look at a few YouTube videos before starting.  I knew I had one, or possibly two strikes against me.  My drill press only goes down to 400 rpm, which is likely too fast for the size of hole I was trying to make.  Second, my hole saws are not particularly high quality. 

 

Now I realize there was a third strike.  I could have sworn that the packaging for one saw said it was made for mild steel, but when I looked at it again just now, it says it is for plastics and wood, and NOT to use for metal.  The other saw is not in the same packaging, but it looks like exactly the same saw as the first one.  These are saws I've had for 15 years or so, and I just didn't check into their purpose very well.  Lol.  Maybe a fourth strike, in that I wasn't using cutting fluid, although recommended by the YouTube videos.  I was only using oil or water.

 

Oh, well, the job is done now and is good enough for my purposes.  Sometimes I realize I still have much to learn, or in this case I had to re-learn that I must read the packaging! ?

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Go to harbor freight, ask a clerk specifically for metal cutting, buy three, when they are worn out take the back for a refund!  Worst that will happen is they will give you a store credit for other stuff.  I saw a set at Tractor Supply that looked pretty good but that was a few years ago.  I used mine for cutting hole in aluminum for ani nstrament panel so not a real test.

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19 minutes ago, greg g said:

Go to harbor freight, ask a clerk specifically for metal cutting, buy three, when they are worn out take the back for a refund!  Worst that will happen is they will give you a store credit for other stuff.  I saw a set at Tractor Supply that looked pretty good but that was a few years ago.  I used mine for cutting hole in aluminum for ani nstrament panel so not a real test.

 

The hole saws I buy at Lowes are pretty good quality. Don't overheat them and make sure the work is clamped down securely.

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I have really good luck with irwin brand. But i find it difficult to find a decent arbor That will keep holesaw running straight. So i first bore a chunk of wood and clamp it where i want the hole. Keeps saw from wandering. Once you have a good start, remove wood.  

use the steel plug and a1/4” bolt to 

keep saw straight, then there is no need for a pilot bit. 
 

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"Go to harbor freight, ask a clerk specifically for metal cutting, buy three, when they are worn out take the back for a refund!  Worst that will happen is they will give you a store credit for other stuff"

That's the way to bring up the kids!

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