STILL IN CRATE 230 FLATHEAD SIX ENGINE IDENTIFICATION

[greg g]

Yep I screwed up,  the red tags are 6v. Accessories 

[PT81PlymouthPickup]

11 hours ago, JBNeal said:

Did this engine find its way into a WC?

Nope! Still in my garage now missing some parts that I sold off to some WC owners. I feel a bit guilty about having done this, but the parts have been going to Vintage Mopar enthusiasts. ? I bought this 230 crate motor because it was a great deal for a NOS engine. I would not even be able to get machine work done on an old core for what I paid for this complete engine. I am however not certain this engine will transplant easily into my 39? The engine in my 39 pickup has no numbers on the block. I believe it to be a 201 or 218? I'm thinking of starting a post hoping to get some insight from those more experienced on swapping a newer and larger 230c.i. into the earlier trucks. I suspect my earlier starter motor might be an issue?  If it turns out the 230 is not a good backup engine for my truck, I'm certain I can sell it easily. Advice and opinions welcomed!  ?

[Young Ed]

That 230 should drop right into your pickup even if you have a 201 or 218. You will likely need a 230 flywheel and go from there

 

[PT81PlymouthPickup]

5 minutes ago, Young Ed said:

That 230 should drop right into your pickup even if you have a 201 or 218. You will likely need a 230 flywheel and go from there

 

Thanks Ed!

 

The 230 came with a flywheel, but I believe the ring gear is not the same tooth count as my early engine? I'm hoping I can use the earlier foot activated starter with the 230? I'm uncertain if it would be just as simple as changing the earlier ring gear onto the 230 flywheel?

[Young Ed]

11 minutes ago, PT81PlymouthPickup said:

Thanks Ed!

 

The 230 came with a flywheel, but I believe the ring gear is not the same tooth count as my early engine? I'm hoping I can use the earlier foot activated starter with the 230? I'm uncertain if it would be just as simple as changing the earlier ring gear onto the 230 flywheel?

Yes I think it is that simple 

[greg g]

The 201/218 flywheel should bolt on, but you will need to align it with the holes that line up. One caution, the crate engine might have a thicker  crankshaft flange.  Measure them before you bolt things together and find the starter won't extend far enough to fully engage the ring gear.  Don C came up against that but his swap was from 230 to 251.  It may or may not be an issue with your change over.

[PT81PlymouthPickup]

2 hours ago, Young Ed said:

Yes I think it is that simple 

I'm hoping so Ed, but with my luck, things rarely go simply. Lols!

[PT81PlymouthPickup]

1 hour ago, greg g said:

The 201/218 flywheel should bolt on, but you will need to align it with the holes that line up. One caution, the crate engine might have a thicker  crankshaft flange.  Measure them before you bolt things together and find the starter won't extend far enough to fully engage the ring gear.  Don C came up against that but his swap was from 230 to 251.  It may or may not be an issue with your change over.

Thanks Greg! Yeah, I'd like to determine if it's an "issue" before I attempt a swap. I'm wondering if I can get a crankshaft flange measurement on my old engine by just dropping the flywheel cover? It's been a while since I looked up in there.

[The Oil Soup]

I just put a 230 in my truck that had a 218 and from Dons post was aware there might be a problem. After measuring the distance from the mounting surface of the starter to the forward edge of the ring gear on the 218 and the 230, the 230 flywheel is about 0.180”  further away from the starter mount surface, so that much was removed from the bell housing and everything is fine. Also had to back off on the clutch pedal adjustment slightly. Go for it!

[greg g]

Just measured the p15 218 in the garage. The inner side of the ring gear is 1.5 inches  from the flat of the engine casting in the area adjacent to the Welsh plug. 

 

Don't know if that will help you I took it there because the bellhousing is off but the flywheel is still in place.

Edited August 23, 2021 by greg g

[wagoneer]

16 hours ago, PT81PlymouthPickup said:

Nope! Still in my garage now missing some parts that I sold off to some WC owners. I feel a bit guilty about having done this, but the parts have been going to Vintage Mopar enthusiasts. ? I bought this 230 crate motor because it was a great deal for a NOS engine. I would not even be able to get machine work done on an old core for what I paid for this complete engine. I am however not certain this engine will transplant easily into my 39? The engine in my 39 pickup has no numbers on the block. I believe it to be a 201 or 218? I'm thinking of starting a post hoping to get some insight from those more experienced on swapping a newer and larger 230c.i. into the earlier trucks. I suspect my earlier starter motor might be an issue?  If it turns out the 230 is not a good backup engine for my truck, I'm certain I can sell it easily. Advice and opinions welcomed!  ?

 

 

We debate elsewhere on color schemes, and it looks like this is our definitive example. It's a later model but still in spec. 

 

The headers look golden? Is that silver patina? Is that silver --- aluminum silver --

 

@PT81PlymouthPickup You have to put that engine in soon! It's calling out to be used, and wasting away  before our eyes. 

 

I'm sure 39' owners were swapping in newer W engines back in the day. 

[PT81PlymouthPickup]

15 hours ago, wagoneer said:

 

 

We debate elsewhere on color schemes, and it looks like this is our definitive example. It's a later model but still in spec. 

 

The headers look golden? Is that silver patina? Is that silver --- aluminum silver --

 

@PT81PlymouthPickup You have to put that engine in soon! It's calling out to be used, and wasting away  before our eyes. 

 

I'm sure 39' owners were swapping in newer W engines back in the day. 

The entire engine was painted with an aluminum looking silver. The golden color you refer to in the pictures is the cosmoline that was sprayed on everything. Still sticky after all these years. The OEM paint job on this engine is pretty crude when you look close at it. Not much prep. I'm certain it wouldn't last long once operated in the real world.  Now it being a crate engine, perhaps it wasn't as fussy a paint job as those installed at the factory, but I doubt it? I have a feeling that a lot of us detail our engines way better than what came when our trucks were new?

 

I hear ya on the wasting away! Lols!  The sad thing is, I don't even need it. My current engine runs like a dream. I was looking for a good core engine to have just in case I needed it when this opportunity came up I could not pass on.

[PT81PlymouthPickup]

19 hours ago, greg g said:

Just measured the p15 218 in the garage. The inner side of the ring gear is 1.5 inches  from the flat of the engine casting in the area adjacent to the Welsh plug. 

 

Don't know if that will help you I took it there because the bellhousing is off but the flywheel is still in place.

Thanks Greg! I'll have to take some careful measurements and make comparisons. I should have done this before I removed the flywheel from the crate engine in order to mount it on my engine stand. I'm thinking I can still get some measurements and along with some basic math figure out if this engine will go in without modifications to the bell housing, which I really don't want to do.

[JeffH]

Hi. Just bought a 46 WC 1/2 Ton and i'm looking for a starter. The tag says MZ4143. The hosing where the bolt goes broke so i could just use a replacement starter shell i guess. I've been looking for a bit now and just can't find anything.  Do you have anything or can you point me in a direction to look?

[PT81PlymouthPickup]

16 hours ago, JeffH said:

Hi. Just bought a 46 WC 1/2 Ton and i'm looking for a starter. The tag says MZ4143. The hosing where the bolt goes broke so i could just use a replacement starter shell i guess. I've been looking for a bit now and just can't find anything.  Do you have anything or can you point me in a direction to look?

Have you tried Vintage Power Wagons?  www.vintagepowerwagons.com

 

[Woodguy]

<edited> Just removed my 1949 Dodge D30 Coronet engine equipped with Gyromatic transmission and discovered that the deck had many cracks and is unrepairable.  All other internal and external parts are in excellent condition, SO, if the basic blocks are IDENTICAL, I should have every necessary part to do a conversion, as required.  Also, does anybody already know about problems associated with the transmission or bell housing change?

[ggdad1951]

19 hours ago, Woodguy said:

EDITED Just removed my 1949 Dodge D30 Coronet engine equipped with Gyromatic transmission and discovered that the deck had many cracks and is unrepairable.  All other internal and external parts are in excellent condition, SO, if the basic blocks are IDENTICAL, I should have every necessary part to do a conversion, as required.  Also, does anybody already know about problems associated with the transmission or bell housing change?

I have edited your post,  requests to purchase or sell parts are not ot be on the main forum (see posting rules at the top of the page).  Please PM the person this was directed towards.

[Woodguy]

I apologize for my error.  Been bouncing all over the internet trying to find info on how to replace my cracked block.  Read this thread, but apparently didn't notice the rules during my sign-up, which did not go smoothly.  I have tried to find basic FAQ information about PMs, and I think I can do that now.  Will give it a try, anyway.  Thanks for getting me on the right track.