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B3B differential rebuild - not as expected


bkahler

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Imo taking apart, replacing gears and bearings in a rear end is not a DIY'er task.

Very much so on old used gear sets.

Setting pinion and carrier bearing preload, moving pinion and carrier in,out and side to side attempting a less than .010" back lash is not an easy task.

Especially with out some of the tools to make the job a quiet long lasting one.

JMO.

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2 minutes ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Imo taking apart, replacing gears and bearings in a rear end is not a DIY'er task.

Very much so on old used gear sets.

Setting pinion and carrier bearing preload, moving pinion and carrier in,out and side to side attempting a less than .010" back lash is not an easy task.

Especially with out some of the tools to make the job a quiet long lasting one.

JMO.

If it were mine, I would just remove the carrier intact.  Flush the pinion bearing really well with solvent to remove old grease, dirt etc.  then flush with soapy water and blow it out well with the air hose.  The spray with wd40, a lot of wd40, to remove any residual moisture.  Do the same with the carrier bearings and reinstall the carrier and reset backlash.  Since you're not taking the pinion out, backlash alone is easy to set..

 

only special tool needed would be a dial indicator.  A special spanner to turn the carrier bearing adjustments would be nice, but there are a lot of ways to 'make do' with other tools.

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50 minutes ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Imo taking apart, replacing gears and bearings in a rear end is not a DIY'er task.

Very much so on old used gear sets.

Setting pinion and carrier bearing preload, moving pinion and carrier in,out and side to side attempting a less than .010" back lash is not an easy task.

Especially with out some of the tools to make the job a quiet long lasting one.

JMO.

 

What I was asking is whether it could be broken down into sub assemblies.  For example, is the ring gear/bearing assembly something that can be removed with a couple of bolts or does it come apart in pieces.  

 

I didn't say anything about replacing bearings or gears.  

 

 

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44 minutes ago, kencombs said:

If it were mine, I would just remove the carrier intact.  Flush the pinion bearing really well with solvent to remove old grease, dirt etc.  then flush with soapy water and blow it out well with the air hose.  The spray with wd40, a lot of wd40, to remove any residual moisture.  Do the same with the carrier bearings and reinstall the carrier and reset backlash.  Since you're not taking the pinion out, backlash alone is easy to set..

 

only special tool needed would be a dial indicator.  A special spanner to turn the carrier bearing adjustments would be nice, but there are a lot of ways to 'make do' with other tools.

 

Ken this is the path I've been taking.  Thanks for your earlier the tip on using Evapo-rust.  I'd never used it before and am beyond impressed with how well it cleaned some small metal pieces I had sat in the pan with the pumpkin.  

 

I've got several different styles of dial indicators so that won't be a problem.  I'll have to see what I can come up with as far as spanner.  If nothing else I'm sure I could fabricate something that will work.

 

Thanks!

 

Brad

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2 hours ago, bkahler said:
Quote

 

What I was asking is whether it could be broken down into sub assemblies.  For example, is the ring gear/bearing assembly something that can be removed with a couple of bolts or does it come apart in pieces.  

 

I didn't say anything about replacing bearings or gears.  

 

 

I understood you were not replacing bearings or gears.

And yes... the rear end is broken down into sub assemblies..

You will clean it up so you can inspect all the parts.....gears and bearings.

If you do see surface rust or pitting on a bearing you better replace it. Usually if one bearing has rust on it another might too.

The pictures of your rebuilt rear end showed some spots of brown something in the carrier case bearing cap. Hopefully none on any bearings.

I have been there several times as rear ends sitting in a car not driver tend to rust and pit especially in the hot/cold climates. They sweat and rust above the oil level.

Of course they are then scrap in severe cases.

As for proper set up....I'm out as to any advice.

I hate whiny/ringy rear ends that end up with a short service life..

If a person has never worked setting one up .....be careful. Use some gear paste.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Dodgeb4ya
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Surprisingly, I was actually able to turn the pinion with one hand this evening.  It still took a little bit of effort to get it to turn but nothing like it was previously.   I've laid it sideways in the bath now and will flop it over tomorrow night.  I might just repeat that for Wednesday and Thursday as well and then spend some time during the day Friday hosing it down with the garden hose and then give it the WD40 treatment to displace the water.

 

20200106_175035x.jpg.fefd4074d8881b66fa6a8048ac068fba.jpg

 

20200106_173934x.jpg.33bfb6cfbedc95f219d292b514547d79.jpg

 

The picture doesn't show it very well but the top three teeth in this photo show what I believe is white lithium grease.  About eight or nine teeth all in a row had  this paste on them.  Since it was easier to rotate after it's been sitting in the Evapo-rust bath I'm hoping that the reason it was difficult to turn was due to hardened grease in the bearings and teeth.  

 

20200106_173947x.jpg.bbd7cd7ea6415e8bb7f8c993ff696788.jpg

 

If what I've read is true the gear ratio is stamped on the side of the ring gear.  Assuming that is true then I believe this verifies that I have a 3.73 diff, which is what I was led to believe.

 

20200106_174641x.jpg.5f7511f61cae9cf15ea456deefb604b9.jpg

 

With luck I'll have it washed down Friday and up on the work bench for a detailed inspection.  With the improvement I found this evening for the moment I'm cautiously optimistic that the diff will be ok.

 

Brad

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1 hour ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

I understood you were not replacing bearings or gears.

And yes... the rear end is broken down into sub assemblies..

You will clean it up so you can inspect all the parts.....gears and bearings.

If you do see surface rust or pitting on a bearing you better replace it. Usually if one bearing has rust on it another might too.

The pictures of your rebuilt rear end showed some spots of brown something in the carrier case bearing cap. Hopefully none on any bearings.

I have been there several times as rear ends sitting in a car not driver tend to rust and pit especially in the hot/cold climates. They sweat and rust above the oil level.

Of course they are then scrap in severe cases.

As for proper set up....I'm out as to any advice.

I hate whiny/ringy rear ends that end up with a short service life..

If a person has never worked setting one up .....be careful. Use some gear paste.

 

If I was to remove the four bolts (pointed to with red arrows) would the ring gear assembly lift away and if so, would I be able to just set the ring gear assembly back in place and torque the four bolts to the appropriate specs?

 

I don't like whiny rear ends either!  If for whatever reason this set turns out to be unusable I'll just swap to a Cherokee diff and be done with it.  Not my preferred course of action but at some point I need to move forward.

 

Thanks!

 

Brad

 

20200106_173934x.jpg

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Yes, but you will need to readjust the backlash when reassembled.  Remove the two little lock bolts and locks first.  Reinstall with the adjustment is complete.  There are really two adjustments, one to bearing preload then one to move the assembly left/right to set backlash.  Both should be covered and most any manual.

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1 hour ago, kencombs said:

Yes, but you will need to readjust the backlash when reassembled.  Remove the two little lock bolts and locks first.  Reinstall with the adjustment is complete.  There are really two adjustments, one to bearing preload then one to move the assembly left/right to set backlash.  Both should be covered and most any manual.

 

Attached is a page out of the service manual.  

 

The way I understand it is I need to mark the caps and the adjusters, loosen the bearings cap bolts and remove assembly.  Upon reassembly I use the adjusters to re-align the marks.  

 

Is that the gist of it?

 

Thanks!

 

Brad

20200106_200238x.jpg

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3 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

What I was asking is whether it could be broken down into sub assemblies.  For example, is the ring gear/bearing assembly something that can be removed with a couple of bolts or does it come apart in pieces.  

 

I didn't say anything about replacing bearings or gears.  

Yes you must prick punch mark  the screw adjusters to the main case....  if you trust the bearing pre-load/ and back lash was set up correctly....both are a critical item. 

Mark the main caps/adjusters both right and left too...always so there could never be a question if they fit either way.

This if you (hopefully not) need to get this deep....

 

Edited by Dodgeb4ya
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10 hours ago, kencombs said:

Steps 25-30 here:https://www.diyford.com/ford-9-inch-differential-guide-third-member-assembly/

will really help.  It's for a ford but really similar steps.

 

Couldn't find one for a Mopar quickly.  Fords break more so more DIY online!

 

Thanks for the link, I think things are slowly starting to gel in my thick skull :)

 

I guess now I wait until Friday when I can flush the unit out and start inspecting.

 

Thanks!

 

Brad

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10 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Yes you must prick punch mark  the screw adjusters to the main case....  if you trust the bearing pre-load/ and back lash was set up correctly....both are a critical item. 

Mark the main caps/adjusters both right and left too...always so there could never be a question if they fit either way.

This if you (hopefully not) need to get this deep....

 

 

Got it.  I'm looking forward to Friday.....!

 

Thanks,

 

Brad

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As I was inspecting the pumpkin last night I found this gooey white paste on the back side of the ring gear carrier.  I'm sure it's a remnant of what I thought was white lithium grease that was found inside the teeth of the ring gear.  What is odd about it is it doesn't feel like any sort of grease, more like a paste substance.  I haven't tried wiping any of it away just yet, I'll deal with that tomorrow when I take it out of the bath to be hosed down.

 

Would this be a remnant of whatever paste that was used for setting the clearances?

 

 

20200108_185419x.jpg

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13 hours ago, JBNeal said:

I'm guessing that it was the stuff to show the contact pattern, rebuilder probably left it on for your inspection...probably just needs to be cleaned off...

 

Whatever it was it washed away after pulling it out of the Evapo-rust bath and washed it down.

 

This morning I set up a pair of saw horses and laid a pallet on top.  I will say in January the water temperature out of the faucet is rather cold!  I hosed down the inside and outside for about 45 minutes continuously while periodically moving the hose from place  to place.  Early on every time I moved the hose more junk would wash out but over time the amount that came out was less and less.  Eventually I didn't see anything coming out.  I kept at it for a few more minutes and then tilted it upright to let as much water drain as possible.

 

I tried rotating the pinion shaft and it was definitely easier than it had been previously for sure.  I then laid it on it's side again and discharged an entire 18 oz can of WD40 into the innards while rotating the pinion and moving the housing to various positions.  Now it seems to rotate a little easier so it appears progress has been made.  Previously when rotating the pinion shaft I would just grab the yoke by hand and try to twist it.  I know for a fact due to my surgery I don't have the strength that I used to so having it seem hard to turn could be partially my fault.  However, I then took a socket extension and placed it between the yoke tangs and it rotates relatively easy now.  

 

Is there a torque in inch pounds that it should take to rotate the pinion shaft?  

 

 

20200110_100636x.jpg

20200110_100618x.jpg

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1 minute ago, JBNeal said:

eek...them squiggly lines look like another door opening for opportunities ahead...

 

Here's another one.  I think there are more. ?

 

If these are cracks like I think they are then I'll be moving on to plan B which is swapping in a Cherokee differential.  

 

 

20200110_113346x.jpg

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Ok, just agreed on a deal for a 3.73 2002 Grand Cherokee differential with disc brakes for $300.  I pick it up later today or tomorrow morning.  Time to put this little bump in the road behind me and move on with the rebuild of the truck.

 

I'll update as I go on my build thread.

 

Thanks all for the advice and encouragement :)

 

Brad  

 

 

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As I recall, the '99 and newer Grand Cherokee's have 5 X 5" lug pattern which wouldn't match your existing wheels on a 1/2 ton. It would work great on my truck though...

You'll need a '98 or earlier Grand Cherokee axle, or a regular Cherokee axle.

Edited by Merle Coggins
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