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Greg51T&CWagon

'51 Chrysler T & C Wagon

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Another question with i hope a simple answer. What do I gotta do to access the front left (passenger side) mounting screw for the heater core box?  I can't see it inside the fender unless the undercoating is hiding it? It comes up from below into the bracket. Do i need to remove some of the sheetmetal?  

Phrustrated in Philly,

Greg

this is the other mounting fastener, it is outboard of this one.

 

heatercorebox.jpg

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I wish it was. the fastener comes up from below and threads into a square nut that is welded to the bracket tab. I just can't find where it's coming up from? Is there a pocket between the outer and inner fender lining? The tab is sort of underneath the box so impossible for me to get to with a sawzall or something to cut and then fix later.  

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Looked at it again this morning. Looks like it's hiding under a big dollop of undercoating in the fender well next to the access panel. I finished rebuilding the distributor. Can a coil be tested off the car? I have a new one for it but the old one has half the bracket welded to its case. Would like to keep it if it's still good for that reason.

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My car has such thick undercoating in the fenderwells you have to dig to find the fastner heads...

 

Most of the time...coils either work or dont. What can happen - when they cold work fine if they get hot they can fail. Do you need a 6 volt coil ? I'll send you a pm.

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you can read a coil primary and secondary but as stated when at temp or over temp these are going to fail even though test is good with the VOM.  That is why when you get to a condition where the vehicle stops....quick tests are necessary to find such faults that clear when allowed to cool.  I would not advocate just grabbing a coil to test the temps as these can get very hot when they fail...but a means to test their temps needs be in place all the same.  As always stated here you need fuel air and ignition to run and these need to measured and delivered at the right time.  Odds are if you are still conscious, the air is sufficient, quick ignition test followed by fuel test for stream or percolation if a warm engine restart is you first go to.  Plenty of article to read on line to get you up to speed on the ignition if you do not own a manual.

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Thanks, I looked around online and did the 2 tests, primary and secondary and it passed the secondary but failed the primary. I have the Standard 6v coil but they don't make them with the bracket anymore. 🤨 A good friend had a coil burn up his 54 Ford pickup they were in the middle of nowhere in North Dakota without an extinguisher, they tried to throw dirt on it but it burned up.  I've got the engine bay almost cleared to have the block pulled. Knock on wood, all of the manifold nuts have been easy to take off. Just need to do the one's underneath. I have a nice little pile of bits to detail now. fan, heater box, heater duct, oil filler tube, some brackets...

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I'm starting to pull the wiring and label to replace. It's in horrendous shape in the engine compartment but not bad behind the dash. In any case I'm replacing most of it. I'd like to do this without removing the dash and also without working upside down. The plan is to remove all the switches from the dash (lights ign etc) and pull the main cluster. dropping the wiring from under the dash. Labeling as I go. The wire that ran to the solenoid  was a bare wire for most of its run!  I've ordered cloth covered wire from Rhode Island Harnesses.

Here's a shot of the registration tag on the firewall. it was hidden behind a caddie brake booster that had been added when the original went bad. 

 

id-tag.jpg

wires.jpg

Edited by Greg51T&CWagon

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You should replace that long rubber oil gauge hose too if you pull the cluster out. Now is the time to do it.

New engine...replace that old hose

They occasionally  show up on ebay 🙂

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Change of plans. Lol. So I think it would be a lot easier for me to do this right if I pull the dash. Correct me if I'm wrong. I need to remove the garnish molding along the lower windshield edge to access a bunch of bolts across the top then two bolts lower corners. I don't see any attachment to the steering column in the parts diagram for the dash. Plus drop the heater control panel from the bottom and let that drop to the floor. I'll need to disconnect the speedo cable from the trans- can i do that without draining the trans? Oil pressure is already disconnected. am i missing anything? I've brought the starter horn etc harness pigtail into the passenger area already. There is still another smaller pigtail that needs to come through. any tips or cautions i should know before I set out to make this mess?

dash-diagram.jpg

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If you are going to rewire the complete front end of car / engine harness and some up under the dash...

You will find as soon as you start undoing some wires from switches etc the wire starts to fray....so

Take the complete dash assembly out with all the front of car/engine harness still connected to it.

That's so you can photograph all the wiring and the way it's routed and connected. Leave the cluster in too.

You can lay the dash and wiring out on a large bench or the floor being able to replace/duplicate all necessary wiring and clean repair what you want.

>Remove the lower garnish molding...seven screws hold the top of the dash to the cowl.

>Remove the 1/2"  Rt and left lower dash retaining bolts  (behind the top of kick panels)

>Remove heater control panel (4 Phillip's screws)

>Remove cowl vent bracket brace bolts to dash

>Remove bolts securing steering column to dash

>Photograph and disconnect/ mark all wiring in engine compartment that will be pulled through firewall rubber grommet hole when dash is pulled

>Remove firewall grommets for..oil/temp gauge,speedo cable and main front wire harness

>Disconnect oil gauge hose at engine

>Disconnect temp gauge at cylinder head

>Remove speedo cable if you can reach it from back of dash...if not remove it from trans..no oil will leak out

>There might be the heater control valve temp sensor screwed to the side or rear of the glove box...cannot be sure

>Some models will have a yellow wire at each end of fast connected to the door pillar switch remove if so

>Dash should be ready to pull back and out...watch all cables as and wires as they come through firewall...remove complete dash.....

If this was a.plymouth or dodge it would be simple but the Chrysler's are much more complicated and very tight.

I have cut the main harness close to the firewall to separate the dash from the front harness for quicker R&R but normally don't as I want the harness undamaged to duplicate as original.

Hope this helps and won't scare you away😬

 

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This is really helpful thanks! I was feeling around up behind it this morning and the stiffness of the wire bundles and such led me to believe it would be a nightmare to leave it in place and work from below on my back. Long ago in my first vintage car,  a 55 Belvedere, I was making the turn in front of the rocky steps in front of the art museum here in Philly and my dash caught on fire right in the middle of everything. I got under the dash and ripped the ammeter wire out-it was shorting and some cabbie sprayed it with his extinguisher. I don't ever want to repeat that! Just a minor burnt fingers. it was not much bigger than a big candle flame. i was able to drive it after some roadside repairs.

i'm going to take this very slowly and methodically. everything is getting tagged and photographed. i'm enjoying the pace actually. it's nice to be able to work on a car and not worry about having to get it working quickly.

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So got everything off except for the column mount bolts. Can't see how this is attached here? BTW this dash has been out before one of the top screws under the garnish was missing and several from the trim around the steering column. So far it's been relatively easy. No frozen screws etc. 

 

edit: i removed three nuts up and above the rubber bumper inside the dash but still won't budge? see pic.

 

column.jpg

backofsteeringcolumn.jpg

Edited by Greg51T&CWagon

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You got paid for a quick job well done!

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On 1/11/2020 at 12:38 PM, Greg51T&CWagon said:

Change of plans. Lol. So I think it would be a lot easier for me to do this right if I pull the dash. Correct me if I'm wrong. I need to remove the garnish molding along the lower windshield edge to access a bunch of bolts across the top then two bolts lower corners. I don't see any attachment to the steering column in the parts diagram for the dash. Plus drop the heater control panel from the bottom and let that drop to the floor. I'll need to disconnect the speedo cable from the trans- can i do that without draining the trans? Oil pressure is already disconnected. am i missing anything? I've brought the starter horn etc harness pigtail into the passenger area already. There is still another smaller pigtail that needs to come through. any tips or cautions i should know before I set out to make this mess?

dash-diagram.jpg

 

 

FYI, the screws (22-02-27) that hold the dash to the body as on 1949 and 1950 they were NOT 1/4 inch even though they looked like it. They used a #14 screw that it no longer made. I had to hit a auto junk yard with period cars go through a half dozen of them to get a handful of good screws. If you try to use 1/4 inch they will strip out the caged nut and then you are screwed especially as one does not figure this out until AFTER the car is painted. Take good care of those screws if they all came out clean.

 

James.

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I think the reason the dash had been at least partially out was to replace the windshield wiper motor. It looks new and there is a door jamb sticker from a gas station saying "windshield wiper motor". I can see if a car has a leaky windshield those screws would be the first to seize.

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Noticed this in the seized engine I'm replacing with the 265 while pulling the manifolds the other day. Again looking at the door jamb stickers it had a valve job a short time before it was parked with overheating problem back in the 70s. Why would someone put a spring on a valve like that? 

 

valve.jpg

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🥴??

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Some guys liked to use a light spring when lapping in the valves. It lifts them momentarily so they don't just go back and forth in the same spot.

Could be the guy had to answer the phone or went to lunch and forgot it.

That's the only thing I can think of.

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Probably helps keep carbon off the underside of the intake valve..if that is a intake😄

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Going to pick up my rebuilt engine at Esche's next week. A couple questions. My 1951 wagon has a gyromatic and a 251. The 265 i'm picking up was an industrial engine with a 12 volt starter. Will the flywheel from the industrial work with a 6 volt starter and will the flywheel work with the gyromatic? in other words do i need to swap my 251's flywheel onto the new engine.

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