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1951 B3F Build Thread


Lingle

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Got some work done this weekend, primarily disassembling the replacement cab so it can be put on the frame to start the mocking up.  It was interesting, this cab appears to be off a truck with a 2 speed rear diff(see my post on speedo identification) but it also had 2 heaters in it.  One was a Mopar Model 70 and the other I do not know.  It does not have a motor in it, but has a heater core.  Anyone know what this is/was?  Im contemplating if the Model 70 will be sufficient for both cab heat and defrost(it only has 1 output for non-defrost operation).  I found some model 65 heaters on ebay but man they are steep!

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Also, how rare were electric wipers?  It appears the replacement cab had electric wipers, however I only got the cab so I couldnt determine if this was a factory installed option or someone at a later date did this.  Any way to identify the wiper vintage?  The switch was located in the same location as my vacuum wiper switch was on my other cab so I tend to believe this was a dealer or factory install, but could be wrong.

 

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Edited by Lingle
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Electric 2 speed wiper motors are not that uncommon in B4/B4 trucks IMO.

I have seen many. Two or more of my trucks have them.

That electric wiper motor is a car motor..

Say 1949 to 52 Chrysler and Desoto...and some Dodge cars too.

Mounts and linkage used are different between cars and trucks though.

Edited by Dodgeb4ya
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B1/B2 electric motors are much rarer...usually found in the heavy trucks because of no vacuum under WOT hauling heavy loads.

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  • 1 month later...

wow been over a month since I posted, and unfortunately not much work done, life got in the way.  I was able to put the engine/trans in the frame to see how much will need cut from the cab.  Looking really good, not alot of firewall to remove(haha, like 1/2 of the firewall will be removed).  Engine mounts coming this week, so should get a good start on the engine mounts.  Will end up making a custom oil pan due to clearance issues.

 

last photo was done after swapping oil pan in the first 3 photos, to clear the front steering arms, needed to convert to a rear sump, but even then its awfully close to the pumpkin.

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Edited by Lingle
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  • 1 month later...

Wow has time flew, and unfortunately little work done on the project.  Life got in the way and it seems like summer wanted to just fly by.  Got some work done removing 1/2 the radiator support(needed to lower front mount for engine), boxing that back in.  Then removed the rear stock engine mounts and boxed the frame there.  the new engine mounts will mount to these areas.  My plan is to get the engine back in the frame and get the motor mounts built this weekend, so prepping for that.  Also heading to a u-pull it yard, one of the only ones in Iowa to see if I can find some hydro-boost brake components(master cylinder, hydro-boost itself, PS pump) and some pedal assemblies.  Need to match the steering box so itll be components from a 1999-2004 Ford Super Duty diesel.  Clutch pedal will come from a Dodge.

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Edited by Lingle
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Also, to prep for the fitment of the engine, determined how much of the cab firewall had to be removed.  As seen below, its not insignificant, but at least its not into the flat sections on either side of the stock bump out.  The white tire marker is where I will be cutting.  Luckily its below the cowl vent mounting as well as some vent tube openings.  I will lose the foot starter, but dont worry, itll be coming back somehow, somewhere, too cool to lose.

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Edited by Lingle
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  • 2 weeks later...

Got some good layout work done this weekend.  Just need to quadruple check the engine placement, then build the engine mounts.  Lots of good progress.  Next weekend making a trip, hopefully, to a town west of Brainerd MN to get a transmission.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Got the transmission from NE Minnesota, i didn't know they had so many potato farms up that way, and finished my powertrain install.  Well not fully done, still needs 4 holes drilled  and some finish welding but the engine, trans and transfer case are all in.  Rear drive shaft is shaping up to be a 2 piece, it's ~7' from transfer case to treat Diff.  Factory dodge was 2 piece and so ran the Ford the axles came from.  Front is super short so some driveline complications for sure will be coming next year.

 

 

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Edited by Lingle
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50 minutes ago, wallytoo said:

the distance from the front output of the transfer case to the front axle doesn't look too short, especially if for part-time 4wd.   the rear shaft on my cj-5 is shorter and steeper.

good to know, thanks!  Ill get some more photos of that area, took some time to make sure rear trans cross member had clearance for the double cardan u-joint.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Got the steering box, mount and frame reinforcement completed.  Steering box is from a 2005 F350.  Keeping front end parts Ford.  Plan to now reinstall the powertrain and start cab mock up for pedals, steering column, brake booster and clutch components.  Will have to come back to front suspension for track bar design(as well as 3rd bolt for steering box) and shocks but that'll be later this year.

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Edited by Lingle
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  • 2 weeks later...

Finished up the steering last night.  Took the stock '93 drag link and shortened it 3.5" so didnt have to make my own version out of DOM tubing and heim joints, or scrounge around to find a suitable length one.  cut the long section down, 45 degree grind so I could v weld the two parts together then slide a section of tube over the weld and plug welded that.  Have no concerns about it breaking.

 

need to work on making the track bar to hold the axle from moving side to side and provisions for the 3rd steering box bolt and front end will be done.  I have moved on to pedal placement and will make a separate post for that below.

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Edited by Lingle
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I was able to find a local guy that has a 2nd gen(I think, 97-?) Dodge addition and has 6 parts trucks.  I was able to work with him, as we both work at the same place, to source many parts from a 1997 Ram with a cummins.  this was the first year they offered hydroboost brakes.  I was able to purchase the hydroboost + master cylinder, brake/clutch/gas pedal assembly, front and rear driveshafts.  This will make life very easy for me since the transmission/transfer case is Dodge, and the shafts are overall too long, which is good since I need to mate them to Ford axles(and of course u-joints are all over the place between manufacturers) and the hydroboost/master cylinder is matched with the dodge pedals.

 

I was able to mock the pedal assembly into the cab(although firewall will end up being patched so its flat) and am very happy.  minor interference with brake pedal and steering column, so will end up moving pedals left ~1/2" or play with bending the pedals slightly.  I am keeping the stock column and wheel then will mate with steering u-joints to go to the Ford/Saginaw steering box.

 

Headed to the metal shop today to get some supplies so hopefully can keep going with project, heaven forbid we have another country shutdown, need supplies to keep me sane!

 

Happy Friday all.

 

First picture is of steering column to brake pedal interference, second is just a side profile and the third is looking through the radio hole to show part of the pedal assembly(which is cast aluminum that I had to cut down) and modifications to the steering column support.  I will end up making some aluminum parts to connect the pedal assembly to the dash for rigidity and also find a way to hold the column to it as well.  

 

Eventually I will be like ggdad and have a mostly solid floor, I wont need to remove the large sections of floor, so mostly it'll be welded solid except the trans tunnel.  My neighbor also recommended that the dog house for covering the back of the engine be removable in case you need it to be, so most likely that too will be removable.

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Edited by Lingle
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Got some good work done tonight.  Replaced the drivers firewall so I can install the hydroboost and dodge pedals.  This is my first dabble into sheetmetal so lots of trial and error.  Plan to use all AN fitting for engine fluids and Earl's performance products, they make some killer hose and fittings that do not require a hose machine to assemble.  

 

 

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Edited by Lingle
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  • 1 month later...

Been sometime since I posted, sorry about that.  I was off work for vacation from Dec 11 to Jan 4th, mix of deer hunting as well as truck work.  Doesnt look like much was accomplished but here is a summary:

 

  • Sterling 10.25" rear axle disassembled, sand blasted, POR-15 and gearset reinstalled, with a fancy diff cover - love some shiny parts!
  • new(to me) rebuilt NV4500 was picked up from Midwest Transmissions in Zumbrota MN
  • power steering pump location finalized and start of brakcetry started(waiting on material to finish)
  • exhaust manifold and turbine housing blasted, painted and baked
  • power steering/hydroboost hoses built(insert plug for Earls Performance hose)
  • located fuel/oil filter behind passenger running board

 

Up next is to reinstall the rear axle and build lift blocks followed by machine my flywheel to accept a Dodge diesel clutch, but neighbor is working on his mill so that will be later this month, so start with rear axle.  Then once I get ride height set, its off to find some driveshaft repair shop and start on brake lines.

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NV4500 for a 2001 Dodge Diesel from Midwest Transmissions with used shifter

 

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Start of power steering pump bracket to mount a GM Saginaw PS pump to my engine

 

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High temp painted(2000°F) exhaust manifold and turbine housing(new turbo connector hoses ordered)

 

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Primary fuel filter and oil filter(larger one) location selected

 

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Edited by Lingle
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  • 4 weeks later...

been busy with other items, but finalized the fuel filter/oil filter location and ran my lines yesterday.  Also finished up the power steering pump bracket.  Neighbor is still working on his mill, so no powertrain updates yet, but hopefully by end of Feb we will have the powertrain back in and get the rear suspension work done.

 

Still struggling with how to get photos to not rotate, seems like its a continual battle for me!

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Edited by Lingle
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  • 3 weeks later...

Got some work done this weekend.  Neighbor got his mill back up and we were able to machine the new Dodge stock clutch to the Detroit heavy duty flywheel.  Then added doubler plates for where the transmission cross member will bolt up.  Also finished the power steering tensioner.  Next step is to find someone to machine the flywheel flat then reasseble so can move to the rear axle lift blocks.

 

I'll rotate the photos later, easiest to upload from phone to resize but the website likes to rotate the photos for some reason!

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The inner set of 8 holes are what I had to add for the  12 1/4" stock NV4500 clutch.

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Drivers box plate pre weld

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Custom belt tensioner 

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Edited by Lingle
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Got some prefab rear axle brake lines for the 1993 F350 rear axle.  Highly recommend Fine Lines brand tubes sold by sstubes.com.  Don't know if they sell them for stock Pilothouse setups.

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Edited by Lingle
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  • 2 weeks later...

Great work done this weekend.  Truck is sitting back on the ground for the first time since October 2019 when I started the project.  Finished the lift blocks for the rear axle, set the pinion angle(tentatively) and got in new u-bolts.  Since I made the truck a 4wd and the new front axle is not a drop axle, had to raise the rear axle roughly 6" to get a 2" rake(rear up).  without the bed on the truck(as I havent built it yet) I had to take a guess at how much the suspension will drop when I put a 9' flatbed on it.  I ended up putting roughly 1000lbs over the rear axle to simulate the bed weight, and surprisingly(not), the rear leafs only squatted <1/2".  Recall I removed 4 leafs as well to improve ride quality(10+7 was the factory set).

 

I am reinstalling the drivers fender to see how well the tires fill the opening.  The tires on the truck are 31x10.5 as I got them super cheap, however final tires will be 37X12.50 to be roughly same tire diameter as stock.

 

Next up is to clean up and reinstall the drivers fender, inner fender well so I can plumb brake lines and also confirm the driveline angles are all good and final weld the leaf spring perches.  

 

Sorry for the rotated photos, I usually post the wording on the computer, then upload the photos from my iPhone, and it randomly rotates them :) 

 

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Lift block details, the smaller horizontal plate is used to keep the lift block vertical.  As many know, these trucks run 2" side springs, spring perches were for 2.25" springs and the spring plate(on top of spring pack) is 3" wide.  In order to keep the 3" u-bolts from moving inward or blocks moving, the horizontal plates take up the side to side gaps.

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Looking at passenger side lift block, overload

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Drivers side overload view from top of frame

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Edited by Lingle
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1 hour ago, Merle Coggins said:

WOW... That's a whole lot of spacer block. 

I was a little worried about the size but looking at my F250 and neighbors F350, they run a 2" and 4" spacer from the factory.  The 6" version I built was assuming some rear squat when I put on the flatbed, however it would be nice to drop the lift to 4-5" if possible.  we will see when I finally get to the flatbed, but rough estimates come in for the bed to be ~1500lbs.  2x3 rectangular tubing all around, with 2x3 cross supports and a spacer under the thing plus rough cut lumber will add up quick.  I could always add back in some springs and reduce the spacer if need be, I kept the 4 removed leafs just in case.  

 

@ggdad1951I would be curious what your Dodge frame is running for rear spacer on your frame swap?  Since I kept the original frame, and stock front leaf pack count(to compensate for the 1400lb engine weight), makes for a tall truck!

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