James_Douglas Posted October 26, 2019 Report Share Posted October 26, 2019 Hi All, In my quest to find a powerflite for my 1947 Desoto... A 1954 Chrysler six has turned up in Scranton, Pennsylvania. If there is someone close by that would be willing to pull what I need, I would buy the car and the person doing the work for me can have the engine. I have one here in California. I will need all the brackets, linkage and the like with the trans. The car could then be scrapped or parted out as one wished. If anyone is interested, let me know. I have contacted the owner and am waiting to see if they car is still available. Thanks, James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted October 26, 2019 Report Share Posted October 26, 2019 About two hours away, but heavy mechanical work outside is no longer on my activity list. If the stuff was our of the car, I have a small trailer and could collect it,but not the complete car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirebill Posted October 27, 2019 Report Share Posted October 27, 2019 I'm about two hours away by highway. Is this a tagged and operational car that can be driven, a rolling car that could be flat towed, or non-operational requiring flat bed trailer? Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted October 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 Hi Guys, I never got a response from the owner...probably sold. I hate it when craigslist posters do not take down a listing when it is sold... James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirebill Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 OK...so just out of curiosity and for the purpose of conversation: what would have been the answer to my questions? Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug&Deb Posted October 31, 2019 Report Share Posted October 31, 2019 Just wondering James, what is the reason for converting to the powerflite? The M6 is pretty bulletproof. I average 3500 miles a year on my Coronet in all kinds of traffic conditions with no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted October 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) I have been using my current setup for over a decade. A fluid coupling with a three speed with OD. However, we are going to use this car to travel the USA in retirement. With my recent back surgery and my wife's knee...I am thinking that we want a true automatic. Push on a clutch with a bad knee is not a good idea. Ask Don about that... I thought about things like the R700 and the like. But they have a fairly good parasitic loss. The Powerflite has very little. I will use a GV overdrive with it. The GV has zero loss except during the shift which lasts less than a second. If one uses a modern GM trans then one has to go through the task of matching the trans to the torque curve of the flathead. With governor weights and valve body issues this (to do it correctly) would take a lot of time. Chrysler worked it all out in late 1953 and 1954 when they matched a six with a powerflite. A look at the master parts book confirms this. Different parts in the governors and a couple of other places. I also want to place a dual master cylinder with a booster under the floor board. Getting ride of the clutch pedal and linkage will free up some room. There is nothing wrong with the M6, I drove it for about 5 years in daily traffic. The FD-3-Speed-OD unit is great. It is just that I am looking to old age with this car. Remember, the 1947 Desot IS our car we do not drive anything modern. Just like taking out a bath tub for a flat floor shower. I need to prep the 1947 Desoto for old age. Trying to find a trans with all the stuff for the six is becoming a PITA. Shipping across the country will kill me just to get the core with all the linkage that this thing needs. In addition to the trans, I am going to use the edmunds manifold I have and use it to create a fuel inject induction for the 265. Reading all the books on doing it correct, this will be something that will take a lot of work on a dyno. One can get FI to work, but to really optimize it for power and economy it takes a dyno and a few days of time. The fuel maps are the big part of making FI not just work, but work well. One item on that front is the issue of to use two injectors, one on each throttle body, or to use 3 injectors one mounted at the base of each runner on the edmunds and firing directly into the block ports. (If you have seen an edmunds you know the spot I am talking about). One theory on FI says that if you cannot place the injectors directly pointing at the valve, and you really cannot on a flathead, then it is better to do it at the throttle body. This has to do with mixing and also the fuel that clings on the intake walls and adds to the fuel charge when more air passes by when the throttle blades open up. It is in FI part of the calculation of what we would call the accelerator pump. When one gets into the details, FI can be very complicated to do right. This will be a 2 to 3 year project. I hope to start in the spring when I am cleared by the surgeon for full duty. James Edited October 31, 2019 by James_Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted October 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) On 10/27/2019 at 4:43 AM, squirebill said: I'm about two hours away by highway. Is this a tagged and operational car that can be driven, a rolling car that could be flat towed, or non-operational requiring flat bed trailer? Regards. The old craigslist ad https://scranton.craigslist.org/cto/d/1954-chrysler-windsor/6992573889.html I did not get a reply. I assume it was sold. If someone does run this down, do me the favor of pulling the parts I need. I have a 265, but he unique six-powerflite parts is what I need and 99% of the time I am sure they end up in recycling or the trash someplace. Edited October 31, 2019 by James_Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug&Deb Posted October 31, 2019 Report Share Posted October 31, 2019 I completely understand James. I didn’t realize you had the 3 speed with fd. I had that setup in my D24. I almost always shifted it like a regular manual. I use my Coronet daily in good weather but I do have a modern vehicle for the days when my age shows up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRodTractor Posted November 1, 2019 Report Share Posted November 1, 2019 9 hours ago, James_Douglas said: In addition to the trans, I am going to use the edmunds manifold I have and use it to create a fuel inject induction for the 265. Reading all the books on doing it correct, this will be something that will take a lot of work on a dyno. One can get FI to work, but to really optimize it for power and economy it takes a dyno and a few days of time. The fuel maps are the big part of making FI not just work, but work well. One item on that front is the issue of to use two injectors, one on each throttle body, or to use 3 injectors one mounted at the base of each runner on the edmunds and firing directly into the block ports. (If you have seen an edmunds you know the spot I am talking about). One theory on FI says that if you cannot place the injectors directly pointing at the valve, and you really cannot on a flathead, then it is better to do it at the throttle body. This has to do with mixing and also the fuel that clings on the intake walls and adds to the fuel charge when more air passes by when the throttle blades open up. It is in FI part of the calculation of what we would call the accelerator pump. When one gets into the details, FI can be very complicated to do right. This will be a 2 to 3 year project. I hope to start in the spring when I am cleared by the surgeon for full duty. James I know that when I go FI - I will be hiding the injectors into carb bodies. Not my picture, but I did save this as some inspiration - two injectors almost hidden into Holley 94s. I'd have to do some digging on the HAMB to remember his name, but this guy went on to hide injectors into the lifter valley in a Ford flatty - we aren't quite as lucky to have an area like that to hide the injectors. My intent is to basically do an improved version of this on a custom manifold with three throttle bodies with two injectors per. A fuel injected six pack for my I6 if you will. Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted November 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2019 Jason, Why would you use six injectors? Also, be very careful if you place the injectors to close to the ports on the block. There are very serious issues with reversion when injecting Siamese ports. The "A" engine guys with British Sports Cars found out the hard way on that issue. Also, one has to deal with the "wall fuel" issue. In some cases, I an starting to think in the case of Siamese ports, that it is an issue...it may be better to move the injectors up into the throttle bodies. The more I read on the development of FI the more I realize that it is quite complex and every little change in design can have a very large impact on the final outcome. I would suggest that you get a few books on the subject and read them. I have been for a month and they have brought up issues I would never have thought of had I not read the books. James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRodTractor Posted November 1, 2019 Report Share Posted November 1, 2019 2 hours ago, James_Douglas said: Jason, Why would you use six injectors? Also, be very careful if you place the injectors to close to the ports on the block. There are very serious issues with reversion when injecting Siamese ports. The "A" engine guys with British Sports Cars found out the hard way on that issue. Also, one has to deal with the "wall fuel" issue. In some cases, I an starting to think in the case of Siamese ports, that it is an issue...it may be better to move the injectors up into the throttle bodies. The more I read on the development of FI the more I realize that it is quite complex and every little change in design can have a very large impact on the final outcome. I would suggest that you get a few books on the subject and read them. I have been for a month and they have brought up issues I would never have thought of had I not read the books. James. My 265 is getting a hemi head - I don't have to worry about siamesed intake ports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted November 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2019 Are you getting on of the Engines from Down Under for your ride? I looked into it. The import duty and availability on short notice of parts was a concern for me traveling around the USA with that engine. James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRodTractor Posted November 4, 2019 Report Share Posted November 4, 2019 On 11/2/2019 at 6:43 PM, James_Douglas said: Are you getting on of the Engines from Down Under for your ride? I looked into it. The import duty and availability on short notice of parts was a concern for me traveling around the USA with that engine. James. No. I'm casting a new hemi head that more or less resembles the Chrysler A161 prototype of 1947. When I get a little further down the path of a final design - i'll make a post and upload a YouTube video outlining the project, specific goals, processes, etc.... bottom line - I'm designing the head to mimic this one pretty closely with some minor updates and tweaks - then instead of taking the time and money to make molds to make the sand molds - the sand will be direct printed using additive manufacturing. Its going to take me a couple of years to pull the whole project together and stuff it into a 1928 Ford RPU on deuce rails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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