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axle seals


JSabah

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I was able to remove my rear hub (with a big hammer and puller) as well as the brake backing plate and axle (used the drum as a slide hammer). I haven't been able to get my old bearing off yet (suggestions are appreciated but that really isn't my question here).  My questions have to do with the seals.  Hear are some pics of what I found but I don"t see an inner seal.  Is it pressed in the axle housing ? i don't want to try and take something out that isn't there and damage/create more of a problem.  

 

Next question re inner seal is how do i know if i was sold the correct ones.  I received (from Andy B )  F-173 which is listed for a '49 Ply  (there is a F178 listed for a truck)  BUT the inner seals I got were listed for a '36-'46 truck (which is F166 - maybe I should have got F168 for a 48-56 truck or even F162 for a 46-61 Ply).  to make things simpler - I recieved 1 set of seals for a car and 1 set for a truck (not even my year) and id like to check and make sure I got the correct ones for a 1949 Plym. Woody.

is there a seal.JPG

old bearing.JPG

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Pull the old seal out.... see if the new seal fits into the axle housing bore with a slight initial resistance... should have a .002 to maybe .004 interference fit into the housing.

Also see if the new seal lip slips some what  firmly over the axle shaft seal area.... not too tight ... not loose.

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Slide hammer with the little triple claw on the end pulls the old seal out nicely. 

 

Here's how I did a few things. Seems to have all worked out well. A press is recommended to remove the bearing race from the axle shaft. As well

as install the new bearings.

 

https://youtu.be/2TlQvMxLeEY

Edited by keithb7
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I had to cut mine out with a Dremel tool on my 49. I took the bearing and had the SN looked up. It was from a 47 Plymouth truck.

So my axle was changed, must have been a bad accident. 

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2 hours ago, keithb7 said:

Slide hammer with the little triple claw on the end pulls the old seal out nicely. 

 

Here's how I did a few things. Seems to have all worked out well. A press is recommended to remove the bearing race from the axle shaft. As well

as install the new bearings.

 

https://youtu.be/2TlQvMxLeEY

 Hi Keith. I had seen your video before ( and watched it again). Being new at this it was helpful- especially using the drum as a slide hammer. Do I have an inner seal ( check my first picture) and if so I don’t understand where to put the claw as I don’t see any lip to grab. Any way you can clarify? I do see how to get the remains of the bearing off... just not the inner seal. Also do you put the outer seal on after the backing plate as it is actually an the backing plate or do you set it in the backing plate when on the bench prior to putting the plate on. Appreciate your  (and everyone else’s advice) as I’m trying to eliminate as much of the error as possible in my trial and error. Thanks, Josh

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3 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Pull the old seal out.... see if the new seal fits into the axle housing bore with a slight initial resistance... should have a .002 to maybe .004 interference fit into the housing.

Also see if the new seal lip slips some what  firmly over the axle shaft seal area.... not too tight ... not loose.

I just don’t see what to pull out 

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I don’t see a seal in that first picture. If you didn’t remove one then a previous “mechanic” didn’t put one in there. 

Does the replacement seal not fit tight into the housing? You also have it in there backwards. The lip needs to go towards the axle oil, or away from you. I don’t have a parts book for a ‘49 Plymouth to cross P/N’s with the trucks. I wouldn’t have expected it to be different, but maybe you don’t have a ‘49 Plymouth axle???

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I am pretty sure I see a seal in that pic. Not all seals look the same the metal outer flange area of the seal. The seals in my '53 video are different. Just different manufacturing process. 

 

Some look like this:

0001459_rear-end-pinion-seal-6-cylinder-

 

Some look like this:

to-15_1.jpg

Or:

3

 

I have also seen another design looking like the seal in your axle photo. Based on what I saw in my axle, there was no fine machining to look like your axle housing does in the top pic. In your pic I see see a line where the seal housing ends, pressed into the axle housing.

Edited by keithb7
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there is a seal in your first picture. It looks like the one I just removed from my 51. The seal in your second picture is backwards. the area where the seal fits is slightly smaller than the area where the bearing fits, so you can not judge if it is correct until you remove the original seal.

 

on further review it looks like the seal in your second picture is the grease seal that fits in the brake backing plate, not the oil seal that fits in the axle housing

Edited by LazyK
more info
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LazyK,

My thoughts exactly. One must position a seal correctly. That is to say to hold back the Pumpkin Grease it must be in the correct position. The Cupped side facing the Pumpkin, not facing the Drum/End of an Axle. The Seals shown in the above pictures appear to be in backwards. In my Humble Opinion. I am not trying to incite anyone here - just to help out.

Tom

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Jsabah's 1st pic shows the inner seal as you can see the inside leather sealing edge and from my perspective it appears to be angled correctly back in towards the pumpkin.............his 3rd pic showing his fingers holding a seal shows the later style of neoprene or rubber seal in backwards as you can see the circular spring that is used to hold the sealing edge against the axle shaft and the "inside" area of the seal............this type of seal is shown as the 2nd one in the 3 pics by Keithb7 ...................there are 2 seals...........the inner seal as is being discussed on the pumpkin side of the bearing and the outer seal which is on the wheel side of the bearing and is held onto the outer housing flange via those five 3/8th UNF bolts that also hold the brake backing plate onto the housing flange...............my 2 Oz cents worth......Andy Douglas.   

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Thank you all your your help.  Turns out that I did have the inner seals in but I just didn't recognize them as they were different looking than my replacements.  Also turns out that they were no match for the slide hammer puller that I borrowed from my local auto parts store.  The bearings were a different story.  The 5 ton puller I borrowed did not do the job but my angle grinder (being VERY careful not to cut all the way thru) and a chisel did the job in short order.  Turns out that both my replacement bearings and  inner seals were the wrong size, so Ill take this opportunity to ask those more knowledgeable than me (that being everyone) thoughts on which inner seal to get - the kind shown being held in backwards or NOS of the type i pulled out (National 50776) - which look beefier but being nos and leather....could be a little dry.  Also Timken bearings (25877) or Chinese made.  If Timkin, they seem to have different tolerances (standard or tighter tolerances)...std OK?.  Finally,  outer raceways changed as well (there doesn't look to be scoring),  for an extra $15/ea I thought Id just be safe and get them...thoughts?

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If I had to choose whether a leather or neoprene seal I'd choose a neoprene seal as I would think it would be of newer construction than the leather seal and hopefully in better condition although I suppose once the leather seal had been soaked for a while in oil it should be quite pliable.........also I'd use Timken bearings or some known ..quality bearing, unfortunately unless I could confirm the quality of a Chinese bearing then I'd pass on it........andyd.    

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Timken ordered with outer race. Also ordered the leather seals. Thinking was- they lasted this long and in case there is any wear ( which I’ll recheck and consider speedy sleeves if so)  on the axle the should fit the same. 

 

I don’t have a press. Do I need to take the bearing and axles to one or can I get them on with a mallet and block of wood?

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Press the bearings on....and off. The best correct way.

41 Packard rear Axle Bearing press.JPG

Edited by Dodgeb4ya
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  • 2 weeks later...

Had the bearings pressed on and half shafts in with the old (cleaned up) shims. Ended up with .003 float on each side. Then starred putting the brake together... pretty happy with the results for having never done this before. Need to make a brake drum measuring tool and make the adjustments. 

C4021171-20AC-485E-8872-FF3D7CC86E8D.jpeg

C2914DC4-D466-415F-B944-8E91977E02B3.jpeg

34CD61A2-E178-43F1-8801-A6054A2ED6AF.jpeg

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Set your new tool to the exact drum diameter dimension...IE 10..030" , 10.055 etc. then it will work exactly like the Ammco 1750 Tool.!

The shoe radius should match the drum diameter surface to nearly 100% shoe contact and high firm pedal. 

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