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Short block first start


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Have a rebuilt 218 short block on a dolly.  I am bolting on the ancillary components and getting ready for the first start.  I would like to just see if it will fire off before I install in the vehicle.  What are your recommendations concerning the cooling and exhaust systems.  Could I just fill the block with water and leave the exhaust pipe and muffler off.  I have seen farm "hit and miss" engines cooled with an open reservoir of water and I would wear ear muffs for the noise.  Or do you recommend hooking up the the radiator and muffler? Regards to all.

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If you want to ensure it won't run hot, keep a garden hose connected to the water pump inlet and connect another hose to the thermostat outlet and direct it out the door, or to a drain. This will ensure water flow through the engine to eliminate a heat issue. If you want to get some heat in the block put a shut off valve on the outlet hose and partially close it to restrict/control the water flow through the engine.

When I fired my engine up for the first time, on a test stand, I filled the block with water and connected the water pump inlet and thermostat outlet together in a loop. That created a lot of pressure as it warmed up and it started pushing coolant out my rebuilt water pump shaft seal. I quickly ditched that setup and replaced the water pump with a new unit.

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if you want to see if it will start it's one process, if you want to run it for any amount of time it's another.  

to just fire it, a little water and go and don't run for more than 30 seconds

 

longer, hook up a hose.

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many good things can come from running and tweaking an engine on a test stand prior to install.  The little time it would take to mount your radiator on a stand and plumb it in would ALSO prove the very cooling system at the same time you tweaking in the engine.  Should you have a problem on install that would require removal of the engine...the stand would have really proved itself.  Do run a short pipe with a muffler if only to appease the neighbors.   Long ago I started the Porsche engine on a stand at 10:30 PM running straight off the headers....I had no clue the neighbors had just moved in as their electricity was not turned on till the following day....he still laughs about this....what the heck neighborhood did I move into?  I just not so long ago repeated this Porsche running on headers...but at a more civil early afternoon hour and I am also more rural.

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I'm still building up this engine.  A slow process.....find a part, clean it up, test as best I can, paint if necessary, find hardware per parts book, and finally install.  Slow and steady. Enjoying every minute of it.  Came to the water pump.  So the head is the internal bypass type with the bump on the front edge.  Pretty sure the head gasket has the hole for the internal bypass passage as I can see where it comes under the bump on the head although  it doesn't go across the full length/width of the bump.  So the new water pump I have (from VPW I think) has the hole in the back plate for the internal bypass as does the gasket.  Problem is, there is no mating hole in the block.  So I think I have a block that requires a external bypass and a head set up for an internal bypass.  Question is: can the engine be used with no effective bypass as it is now.  If not I will be on the search for the necessary components for an external bypass, i.e. the cast iron housing for the head and the bypass elbow for the top of the water pump. What are your thoughts? Regards

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Don.....thank you for the quick response.  My gasket looks just like your gasket you have marked as "4267".   My water pump has openings in it that match the gasket.  My issue is that my engine block does not have a matching hole for the hole in your gasket that the phone number digits "-0863" can be seen.  I assume this is the internal bypass hole since it sits under the hole in the head bump.  So  my head is set up for internal bypass but since I am missing this hole ,my block is only set up for external bypass.  My question is what will happen if I run the engine with no bypass until I can find the necessary components to install an external bypass. Regards.

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If you intend to start it do it right.  on stand or in car makes no difference.  

 

Set it all up and run it 20 mins at 2000 rpm.  

 

Anything else, especially those short runs and rube goldberg coolant hookups recommended above risk your camlobes lifters and bearings. 

 

Break it in.  After that you can piss around with short runs at much reduced risk

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Thanks all for your recommendations and photos.  Through some deep rummaging in my parts bins/ boxes over the weekend I was able to find all the parts to accomplish an external bypass.  Only real issue is that both the radiators I have have their upper hose connection coming out straight towards the engine rather than angled down as seen in Don's photo.  Luckily during rummaging have both upper and lower flex hoses that I will use for the bench testing.  Filled the cooling system today.  Only leak was at the heater control valve at the rear of the head.  The connection to the head was good but was leaking at the actuator rod on top of the valve.  Changed it out and all seems good.  Plan is to install oil pressure gage, fill oiling system, and pressurize through oil galley with a utility pump til I see pressure on the pressure gage.  Will also transfer carb, distributor cap, coil, and wires from my '49 B1B since I know they are serviceable.  Plan to acquire a discarded muffler from the local muffler shop and use it for the bench testing.  Can anybody think of anything I am missing? 

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I am working towards the same first start and nearing the point of placing the basic electrical connections.  That said, I am looking for insight and instruction on connections. I have the block sitting in the frame without any body installed.

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For a "first start" in your situation you could just connect a wire from the battery to the coil with a toggle switch in between. Hook up mechanical oil pressure and temp gauges, and run it. If you have a stomp start starter you're good to go. If you have a key start, or push button start, you may also need to wire up a start button and starter relay.

 

For a longer term way to run your engine in the chassis you could make a small control board with the gauges and switches. Then attach your voltage regulator to the board and wire it up to your generator. This will allow battery recharging during your run cycles. You could also wire in an ammeter if you so desire. I rigged up a panel like that on my truck when I was in the build process. I had to park the truck chassis outside during the week and would pull it into the shop over weekends to work on it. This setup allowed me to easily run the engine when needed.

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Do you have an electric key start or the foot actuated type starter.  The foot, through the floor starter was stock. I converted mine to a key actuated starter.  Anyhow, you only need a couple electrical connections.  Depending on the polarity of the battery you are using...whether you use the stock "positive" ground or have converted to negative ground it goes something like this:  Your battery ground cable gets connected to a good ground point on the engine. Your other battery cable will be connected to the starter lug.  This depends on the type of starter you have. If the stock foot start the cable can just be connected to the lug on the starter.  If a key start type starter the cable goes to one side of a starter solenoid then another cable goes from the other side of the starter solenoid to the starter lug.  If a key start then need a "hot" wire to the key switch and another wire from the key switch to the solenoid.  The ignition system needs a hot wire from the battery to a switch then another from the switch to  the Hot terminal of the ignition coil.  Then another wire from the other terminal of the coil to the terminal on the distributor. So the start sequence would go like this:  Put the coil switch to the "ON" position.  Actuate the starter by the key switch or the starter lever.  To shut the engine down put the coil switch to the "OFF" position.  This setup does not have a charging system on it. I use the generator just as a pulley to tighten the fan belt so the water pump will turn.  If the battery needs to be charged I use a "plug in the wall" battery charger.  Regards.

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Thanks for the information, that’s exactly the advice I was looking for.  It is still the old school push button on the starter and positive ground, so your explanations make perfect sense.  

 

Given the fact that the vacuum advance diaphragm is no good, I am planning to plug the vacuum port, assuming that won’t make a difference.

 

Also, my experience with other 6 volt systems and a current post regarding starters, I will probably use a 12 volt battery to power the outfit. The generator needs rebuilt but is acting as the belt tensioner, so I don’t plan on hooking in the battery.

 

Todd

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So it fired up.  What's the saying..."you make plans and God laughs".  Took carb, distributor cap, coil, and wires off my B1B and installed on short block.  Installed a Walker muffler I got off amazon for $14 plus change and adapted to exhaust pipe cut off I had. Tried to fire off.  Nothing.  No spark.  Pulled distributor from B1B and installed.  Fired off but couldn't keep running.  Fuel pump wasn't sucking.  Pulled fuel pump from B1B and installed. Fired off and kept running.  Set it to 2000 rpm. and let it run.  For about the first 5 minutes got some blue smoke out of exhaust...profuse at first then settled down..  Figured it was assembly oil and rings seating in.  Got to 10 minutes and radiator began to overflow.  Radiator thermometer was at 190 degrees.  Shut down.  Note, did not have a fan blowing into front of radiator....my bad.   Next morning, set up fan to blow on front of radiator.  Fired it off and ran good at 2000 rpm.  No blue smoke out of muffler.  Got to about 18 minutes and radiator started to overflow again.  Shut down.  Radiator thermometer at 185 degrees.  So all seems good.  I'm a little concerned about water temp.  Note: I do not have a thermostat in the engine.  It is a new water pump.  Any comments concerning this overheating would be appreciated.   

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the thermostat plays a very important role in the engine...not only does it allow the engine to come to a set temp....its real function is to control the exchange of water from the engine to the radiator by the very size of the opening.  If you exchange the water to fast....ie thermostat removed, the water will NOT collect the heat from the engine for release at the radiator.  IF you move the water to slow, the water goes into saturation and will also have similar effect.   If you wish not to run a thermostat, at least mount a restrictor plate of the proper size opening as the original thermostat.  

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gratz, first thing to remember, re-torque the head bolts.

 

I do question/wonder about the rebuild though.

Did you take it to the shop and have it done, or is it a engine that was rebuilt and you picked it up and using it?

 

My engine ran hot when I first started it, after it sat for 20 plus years.

I cleaned the water distribution tube, I pulled the welch plugs and cleaned the casting sand out of the engine block, currently is running with no T-stat installed.

It runs at 160, 180 ... it will creep up to 190. As soon as I raise the idle it drops back to 160 ... it needs a T-stat installed.

 

But all of my issues would have been solved, if the block was taken to a machine shop and hot tanked.

So this is why I am asking, did a machine shop rebuild this block, or were you told is was rebuilt?

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The block was rebuilt by a machine shop.  It was hot tanked and pressure tested before any machine work was done.  I intend to install a new Stant thermostat that I ordered and rec'd yesterday.  Wii advise of progress.  Regards to all.

 

So I installed the Stant 160 degree thermostat.  Fired off the engine and ran at the 2000 rpm.  Made it to about 23 minutes,  radiator temp was up to 190 degrees.  Put engine back to idle , ran at idle for about a minute and ran out of gas.  Go figure.   Still think I have an overheat problem.  Will try another radiator.  The one I'm using now came with the car un-installed and sat in the back of the car for 10 years.  No telling what kind of small critters may have set up a household in there. Looked OK looking in the filler neck but maybe the critters got into the far recesses of the radiator.   Has anybody had any luck with flushing out a radiator?  I think I remember something about reverse flushing. Regards

 

 

So changed out the radiator with a spare.  Solved the problem.  Ran engine for 25 minutes at 2000 RPM.  Radiator thermometer held at 160 degrees.  All seems good.  Oil pressure was at 40 psi @ 2000 rpm.  When I backed it off to idle prior to shut down oil pressure went to 30 psi.  Seems OK but my B1B reads 40 psi @ idle.  Which seems more normal to you? Regards.

Edited by squirebill
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