brooklynbeer Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) Finally found the time to get the old girl back together after finding a cracked transmission among other things. Swapped out a fluid drive trans from a 48. So while the trans was out I did a clutch replacement. Bernbaums supplied the disc and pressure plate and the new bearing and sleeve were same length as the original that destructed to start the whole mess. Now I have a couple of problems and the first being the clutch which I am hoping is just a rod adjustment. The floor pan is out. When I step on the pedal it goes over center and stays to the floor. The over center spring is attached still. I notice now that with the pedal up there is an easy 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch of gap between the rod fitting in the socket of the fork when I have the bearing touch the pressure plate. When depressing the pedal with return spring attached it doesn't feel like much pressure is being applied to the pressure plate and the pedal just goes over center and to the floor and will not return. I notice a little "pop" as well from the torque tube as it goes over center. The torque tube has some movement to it and I am wondering if something broke with the bracket and torque tube that is now causing the length differences in what is required to get the release bearing to make contact after clutch replacement. Is the torque tube supposed to be rigid? The clutch fork pull back spring is not a factory part at this time but it is the one that was in the car and functioning before the release bearing sleeve destructed. The second one will deal with the trans (replacement) not going into first but will go into that once I get the clutch issue worked out as I think it is related. I had the shift lever cover off to inspect and I might not have the the gears inside set correctly after inspecting. Stupid me did not take a picture and record the location of the gear shift control rods. But it does go into second, and third easy. I am thinking I am getting it to go into neutral and reverse on the other side. When trying to get into first it sounds as if it is clunking against something in the trans. I set the gears inside to neutral and reinstalled the shift lever with the lever in same neutral position. This how it was set when I put the cover back on with shift lever in neutral. It bench tested going into all gears fine I thought. Edited June 16, 2019 by brooklynbeer add picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 The over center spring will have to be adjusted as will the clutch pedal free play of 1" max. If it still does not operate correctly get your original pressure plate and disc rebuilt by Tennessee Clutch or the brake and clutch company in Fort Wayne. Indiana. The new Chinese parts are land fill IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooklynbeer Posted June 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 Thank you. The manual came across a little fuzzy concerning the over center spring. I am not understanding why the pedal goes to the floor though and doesn't return. I am curious if something else might have broken causing that problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted June 17, 2019 Report Share Posted June 17, 2019 Hopefully the pressure plate is set up with the correct springs and plate height. And that the disc thickness is correct ...all very critical in relation to the over center spring adjustment.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooklynbeer Posted June 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2019 (edited) It seems like it is. The free play is real close to being what it should be. I put both old and new assemblies side by side before install and they looked good. BUT, It is just when you depress the pedal about half way down you get a little pop that seems to be originating around the torque shaft (You can see it do it ) and then it seems the pedal wants to be snapped / pulled to the floor. Maybe this afternoon if the weather holds I will be able to get a better look. How much movement / flexibility is there supposed to be in the torque tube? I am going to attempt a short vid of what is going on today to try and explain it better. Edited June 17, 2019 by brooklynbeer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooklynbeer Posted June 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2019 Yep, something is broken in the torque tube area. Depress the clutch and as soon as it starts putting pressure on the release bearing it POPS and goes to floor and no more pressure on the bearing. You can see the torque tube jump when it pops. Everything is still connected though and I don't see anything broken like a shaft. I will have to get in there head first and look closer. I now know the release bearing and sleeve most likely was already damaged and the front bearing retainer also broken prior to the event. When everything went south it was the torque tube area. I depressed the clutch and it went to the floor and never came back just like it is doing now. When it pops and goes to the floor there is no pressure on the clutch fork rod. The return spring on the clutch fork is doing it's job. Best way to describe it is something is "jumping a tooth" in feel. Going over the Henry M Rowell parts book I only see about 7 parts in that area so it should not be hard to track down once i dive into it. There is quite a bit of movement in the torque tube when I grabbed it by hand if that means anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooklynbeer Posted June 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2019 Yep, something is broken in the torque tube area. Depress the clutch and as soon as it starts putting pressure on the release bearing it POPS in the torque tube and goes to floor and no more pressure on the bearing. You can see the torque tube jump when it pops. Everything is still connected though and I don't see anything broken like a shaft. I will have to get in there head first and look closer. I now know the release bearing and sleeve most likely was already damaged and the front bearing retainer also broken prior to the event. When everything went south it was the torque tube area. I depressed the clutch and it went to the floor and never came back just like it is doing now. When it pops and goes to the floor there is no pressure on the clutch fork rod. The return spring on the clutch fork is doing it's job. Best way to describe it is something is "jumping a tooth" in feel. Going over the Henry M Rowell parts book I only see about 7 parts in that area so it should not be hard to track down once i dive into it. There is quite a bit of movement in the torque tube when I grabbed it by hand if that means anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyK Posted June 17, 2019 Report Share Posted June 17, 2019 is't 1st gear locked out on a fluid drive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooklynbeer Posted June 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2019 No, it has a normal 3 speed trans in it. Just a longer input shaft compared to a non fluid drive trans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldSmith Posted June 17, 2019 Report Share Posted June 17, 2019 The "Fluid Drive" coupling was available on the 3-speed transmission, as in Dodges, and on the semi-automatics on DeSotos and Chryslers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooklynbeer Posted June 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) I think I may have located one problem. The clutch pedal is coming to far back over center due to a weak return spring. Stupid question here but can someone give me approximate measurement from the back of their pedal to the floor? Something I can use as a gauge for proper placement. The popping I am getting is when the pedal gets depressed over the center from the over center spring. Everything else is good shape. I pumped every fitting up with fresh grease and it feels pretty tight. But this return spring has to be too weak to keep the clutch pedal from coming back over center it seems. As an indicator it about 1 1/2 inches in front of the brake pedal in height. I have now been looking for 20 minutes and cannot find the proper clutch pedal pull back spring. part # 866905 Tried the popular suppliers. Can someone send me a picture of the spring they are using? I ordered one from mopar mall months ago and they sent nothing like is pictured in the manual. That shows a short spring with a long tail. What I got was a half the length with no tail, just hooks. It is a taut spring and way above the aftermarket mess that was in there. Edited June 18, 2019 by brooklynbeer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) There are adjustment screws with lock nuts at the base of the clutch and brake pedals for adjustment of pedal height. Look for these screws at the top side of the pedals above the pivot shaft. Edited June 18, 2019 by Dodgeb4ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooklynbeer Posted June 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 Got it. ▪️ As far as I can tell the clutch pedal is coming to far forward and the pop is coming from the over center spring. So will start with a much stronger return spring and then start to adjust over center spring. The manual is not very clear on this but I have put enough together from reading countless back posts in the archives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooklynbeer Posted June 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2019 OK, went out this morning and put on a good clutch pedal return spring about the correct tension of a stock one. Loosened up lock nuts on turn buckle and began adjusting turn buckle till the over center spring didn't POP as it was depressed. It was really out of position. The spring adjustment was way too forward. I bet I made the turn buckle up about 3/8 of an inch. Now my question of free play. I think I have right by manual directions. I can depress the pedal about 1/2 inch before it engages the clutch. I am very close to being in the ballpark but the clutch is functioning as it should. Full return now, etc. Now to change the oil and install new starter. Brakes now go to floor but being up on jack stands most likely has something to do with that. Will bleed them when back to level. Everything i have seen tells me I have the trans gears set right too. Just won't go into 1st but does into reverse second and third. . It did fine on the bench. Trans just might be in the certain spot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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