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keithb7

New Car Day! 1938 P6 Plymouth Deluxe

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Probably boring stuff for most folks here. You've all dropped a tranny and clutch or two I'm sure. There are some rookies here who may find this interesting and inspire them to do their own work. Help keep the old car hobby alive. I did my first clutch when I was 16. 32  years later I'm having even more fun this time around and am comfortable in my heated shop!

 

 

Edited by keithb7

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I picked up the heated shop jab......lol

 

None of this stuff is truly hard, but often at some of the owners age certain working positions make it unpleasant or in some cases impossible.   I am all for doing your own work on these old cars but I also understand folks do have limitations.  Then there are a few tasks that just need a second set of hands...never a substitute for tools, knowledge and shop space... motor on big guy...motor on..!

Edited by Plymouthy Adams

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25 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

Probably boring stuff for most folks here. You've all dropped a tranny and clutch or two I'm sure. There are some rookies here who may find this interesting and inspire them to do their own work. Help keep the old car hobby alive. I did my first clutch when I was 16. 32  years later I'm having even more fun this time around and am comfortable in my heated shop!

 

 

 

All good stuff, Keith!

 

I dropped the transmission from my '61 Falcon while in high school and that was with the car up on blocks out in the yard! Probably not very safe now that I say it... 

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Exposing my weakness and outer edge my experience here. I’m entering ZOUD. The “zone of uncomfortable disassembly”. I have not personally gotten this deep into a tranny and reassembled it. This has to function again.  I have questions, and hopefully with your help, it’ll all turn out fine. 

 

Input bearing feels sloppy. So I better replace it. I wanted to remove the park brake housing so I could install a new gasket. I see a roller bearing in there. Might as well change it too.

 

I see snap rings holding in the bearings. My manual says to replace all removed snap rings with new. Are these common, readily available snap rings?  I am hoping I really don’t have to track down NOS snap rings by Chrysler part number. I looked up various width snap ring part numbers from my 1938 parts book. I saw one size on Ebay for $192 USD! For 1 snap ring!

 

Looks like I need some type of ratchet locking snap ring pliers. I don’t own that tool. Time for some tool research. Suggestions are welcome.

 

I can very much hear my Dad’s voice when I was 16. Echoing in my head. “I sure hope you can get that back together son”. 

 

Thx. Keith

 

 

 

 

430E4BE2-61B6-48DF-B27D-17418FF452A0.jpeg

Edited by keithb7

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Get the right tool(s) for the snap rings and bearing puller. Then order a small parts kit cause if you gone this far go ahead and finish the job.  Can't remember if the bearing come with snap rings or you need to pick them up separately. 

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Time for a little progress update.  

 

I am still waiting for my transmission rebuild parts to arrive. I was out of town this week on business. When I came home I was very happy to see my wife moving along with the upholstery. Heather would rather I waited until she was done, before taking any photos. However it is fun to watch the progress and share a few details. She's pretty picky and not 100% happy with her results. This is her first time at this, so I keep telling her to not be so hard on herself. You have to learn and can't expect professional results on try #1. Look at the rest of the car,  it's not perfect either!  I am very proud of her skills. Having her interest in adding to the car's restoration is fantastic. All the more fun and feelings of accomplishment when we take friends and family out for a rides in the future.

 

Seen here, she has started adding trim buttons. There are pin heads seen. They'll come out when the lower buttons are installed. We were amazed how light and bleached the fabric was compared to the original colour. We found original dark colours down in areas not exposed to the sun. By complete chance we had picked out new fabric that closely matched the original darker colour. The additional batting she added has the seat feeling nice and comfortable when I sit on it.

 

 

IMG_2582 (1).JPG

Edited by keithb7

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I friend of mine gave me a seat from a Chevy Surburban, the 3rd row seat.     It fit perfect, and it tilts forward to get to the back of the seat storage.  The original interior in my Coupe was tan.     Now I will have to make new door panels, and a new headliner, all tan.....

043.JPG

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9 hours ago, keithb7 said:

Time for a little progress update.  

 

I am still waiting for my transmission rebuild parts to arrive. I was out of town this week on business. When I came home I was very happy to see my wife moving along with the upholstery. Heather would rather I waited until she was done, before taking any photos. However it is fun to watch the progress and share a few details. She's pretty picky and not 100% happy with her results. This is her first time at this, so I keep telling her to not be so hard on herself. You have to learn and can't expect professional results on try #1. Look at the rest of the car,  it's not perfect either!  I am very proud of her skills. Having her interest in adding to the car's restoration is fantastic. All the more fun and feelings of accomplishment when we take friends and family out for a rides in the future.

 

Seen here, she has started adding trim buttons. There are pin heads seen. They'll come out when the lower buttons are installed. We were amazed how light and bleached the fabric was compared to the original colour. We found original dark colours down in areas not exposed to the sun. By complete chance we had picked out new fabric that closely matched the original darker colour. The additional batting she added has the seat feeling nice and comfortable when I sit on it.

 

 

IMG_2582 (1).JPG

The seat looks fantastic.  Tell your wife I'm impressed!👍

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Upholstery looks great.

 

  but returning to your transmission :

I have rarely bought new snap rings and just as rarely used any kind of snap ring pliers.  When I was a teenager, a set of vise grips was the jewel in my tool box.  A couple of screw drivers and eye protection is all you need.  still, some blood will be shed,

Edited by dpollo
clarification

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In the spirit of helping anyone who is new to old Mopar repairs and maintenance, I am happy to contribute my experience. So I upload a few videos here and there to You Tube (YT).  It seems the entire younger generation goes to YT to learn about almost anything. Perhaps my contribution will help someone out, with their old Mopar someday. Many kind folks here teach me pretty much anything I need to know so this may bore you. For the newbies here, maybe I can help you.  More talking about my '38 3 speed transmission here:

 

 

 

Edited by keithb7

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Your comment about redoing the master cylinder brought back a painful memory.  When I was in the Navy I had a 40 Chrysler Royal that needed a master cylinder rebuild.  I was attempting to loosen the fittings on the brake lines with a line wrench when the wrench snapped and I punched the block with everything I had.  No I wasn't using a cheater pipe, just my bare hands.  Unfortunately, I found out the hard way that though they looked like quality tools, they were cheaply named.  My hand swelled up like a ham, for a while there I thought I broke it.     

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Just watched your bearing video and I think you may have an issue with that new input shaft bearing  The open side should be towards the inside of the trans so the oil can splash lube it.  Your snap ring will put the shielded side on the inside if I am see it right.

 

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.Meanwhile down in the basement upholstery shop:

 

My wife continues to move ahead. She’s learning new things. She’s done a very good job for her first attempt at this work. She’s not 100% happy with her work. I assure her its great for the level of revival for this car. Unless she worked at the factory in 1938 in the upholstery shop, with all the tools and techniques mastered, she won’t be 100% content. 

 

She trudges on with limited tools and experience here at home. I sure am very grateful, and tell her so 

 

 

8F3D747B-D13B-443A-A54E-A7BBA082CD51.jpeg

Edited by keithb7

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Input shaft bearing shield faces inside of trans.....🙂

 

 

 

Edited by Dodgeb4ya
Spelling error

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@Dodgeb4ya Is there some type of procedure to choosing the correct thickness gasket for the pinion bearing cover? I see that in my gasket kit there are two gaskets. Slightly different thicknesses. Somewhere in the back of my mind I saw a procedure somewhere that I read about, mounting the cover then placing feeler gauges in there to measure thickness? Maybe it was a dream I had, because I've read and flipped though several reassembly instructions in multiple books I own. Books covering various years of Mopars with manual 3-speeds. from mid 30's to mind 50's  it seems they all used this same pinion bearing cover. I cannot find where I read this info. Thanks.

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If you bolt the bearing retainer onto the case... input shaft installed..and no gasket installed...

Use feeler gauges to measure the gap between the case and the retainer.

You want to install a gasket or two of the correct total thickness that is approx. .005" thicker than you feeler gauge measurement.

This will create just enough crush on the gasket for proper sealing crush and also prevent the bearing retainer from breaking/cracking because of excess crush/pressure on the input shaft bearing outer snap ring.

It is near impossible  to get exact gasket stack height.

It is very important to make sure the bearing retainer pushes down tight on the input shaft bearing snap ring. This prevents the input shaft and bearing from moving in or out of the case ....possibly causing 3rd gear engagement problems.

So if the gasket thickness cannot be enough and leaves a slight gap.. a gasket sealer like the "Right Stuff: will seal the say .005" gap fine. Just don't crank down real hard on the bearing retainer and possibly break it. I have never managed to break one doing this.

Of course back in the day Miss MoPar supplied or had available snap rings and gaskets of different thicknesses to take care of these assembly situations.

Nice job on assembly on your trans!👍

The road test will be proof of that!

 

 

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1 hour ago, keithb7 said:

@Dodgeb4ya Is there some type of procedure to choosing the correct thickness gasket for the pinion bearing cover? I see that in my gasket kit there are two gaskets. Slightly different thicknesses. Somewhere in the back of my mind I saw a procedure somewhere that I read about, mounting the cover then placing feeler gauges in there to measure thickness? Maybe it was a dream I had, because I've read and flipped though several reassembly instructions in multiple books I own. Books covering various years of Mopars with manual 3-speeds. from mid 30's to mind 50's  it seems they all used this same pinion bearing cover. I cannot find where I read this info. Thanks.

 

From the Plymouth 1946-54 manual:

 

transmission-18.jpg.f2ebfcfc6f9dd0b9fb25eef7a90bd2a9.jpg

 

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Thanks @Sam Buchanan and @Dodgeb4ya. Funny how that bearing retainer info is absent from any shop manuals I own. 

 

Clutch removed and inspected. All looks good except 2 broken springs in the disc plate. Out shopping now for a new one. No hot spots. Smooth and clean surfaces. Good pressure plate tension. So she’ll get a new throw out  bearing and a new clutch plate. Married up to my rebuilt tranny I’m hoping for great things! 

 

Looking back, I’ve had so much fun and learned so much since May 2017 when I bought my first old ‘53. Mopar . Moving along is so enjoyable. 

 

My bench today:

 

48B44690-294B-4075-B42C-CA3AF69399A1.jpeg

Edited by keithb7

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Be careful not to end up with a poor quality offshore release bearing.

I think you already know that🙂

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8 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Be careful not to end up with a poor quality offshore release bearing.

I think you already know that🙂

 

The lot of spare parts that I purchased in October had a good removed, original Mopar throw out bearing. I am going to use that.....Wait a minute! Pretty sure there was a clutch plate too! I better go check it out. Perhaps I will defer another parts payment! It came out of a 1953 Belvedere L6. I get so into what I am doing, I had forgotten I likely have a good used clutch plate

Edited by keithb7

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Yes! In the parts lot I bought there is a good looking clutch assembly. I’ll clean up and use the disc. All springs are sound. Facing material from removed disc .2896”. Spare found disc 0.2907. A difference of 0.0011”. I have not been able to find a wear spec for these clutch discs. Anyone know?

 

Once in a while it feels nice to get a break. 

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On 5/25/2019 at 5:05 PM, keithb7 said:

Well we made it to pick up point. The rain let up. We got it running and up on the trailer...Almost. Died on the ramp with front wheels on the trailer. We were well equipped with a 12V winch mounted to the front. So we yanked it up and strapped it down. 

 

This is my first vintage car rescue with my Ram truck. I’m impressed. The Cummins gets the job done quite well. 

 

Waiting now at the ferry to get back to continental North America.  We just may get back to Kamloops by mid-nite pacific time.  So far so good!

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I like your truck too...  My Cummins trucks all haul very well.

 

Very nice 1938, it's good to see one kept that close to original.

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On 6/23/2019 at 7:25 PM, knuckleharley said:

I like it. It reminds me of a MUCH shinier version of the first car I ever bought,a 1938 Chrysler flat 6 4dr. Paid 20 bucks for it with a clear title. Some valves were stuck,but once we freed them up it ran like a new one. I was 14,and my plans were to get it safe and reliable to drive from "summer job money" by the time I turned 16.

 

Then one day I came home from school and discovered somebody stopped by and offered my father 250 bucks for it,and he sold it and kept the money. "My yard,my car,my money" is how he justified this theft.

A very sad story.  Your father was a jerk just like mine was.  Fortunately, I am nothing like my dad, and my kids will enjoy a loving father....

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