1947 Plymouth---Brake job

[Bob Watson]

help--just completed putting new brake cylinders including master cylinder--did adjustments---flushed the system--got air from the lines--BUT, THE CAR PULLS STRONGLY. TO THE LEFT---HELP---??????  Bob Watson---phone   810 335 7619

[Ajgkirkwood]

I do not think this relates. I did the brakes recently on my car and it was fine. Anyways it sat for months over winter storage. When I took it for a shake down run it pulled the the right when I braked. Did this for a few runs then it went away. I figured it was taking off glazing of some sort, re seating its self. Maybe one brake had fluid of some sort on it while it sat

[Don Coatney]

1 hour ago, Bob Watson said:

help--just completed putting new brake cylinders including master cylinder--did adjustments---flushed the system--got air from the lines--BUT, THE CAR PULLS STRONGLY. TO THE LEFT---HELP---??????  Bob Watson---phone   810 335 7619

 

How did you do the adjustments? Did you use the Aamco tool?

 

 

 

 

[Cold Blue]

Don't have that special brake tool that Don has...... Try this - jack the front end up to get the wheels off the ground. Then spin the wheels and adjust the brakes to get just a light rub on both of them. That gets the distance from the drum to the shoes the same. If one shoe is closer to the drum than the other, it'll pull. Hope this helps..

[woodrow]

1 hour ago, Cold Blue said:

Don't have that special brake tool that Don has...... Try this - jack the front end up to get the wheels off the ground. Then spin the wheels and adjust the brakes to get just a light rub on both of them. That gets the distance from the drum to the shoes the same. If one shoe is closer to the drum than the other, it'll pull. Hope this helps..

I just did the same thing, a whole brake system replacement on my 48.  only difference is I honed some cylinders and rebuilt them and replaced others.  I did the adjustments basically the same way you described, without a tool and it went great.  it's possible though that the original poster has the shoes imbalanced on adjustment cus I know it took me about 10 minutes per corner adjusting and readjusting til I got it right.  

[Don Coatney]

1 hour ago, Cold Blue said:

Don't have that special brake tool that Don has...... Try this - jack the front end up to get the wheels off the ground. Then spin the wheels and adjust the brakes to get just a light rub on both of them. That gets the distance from the drum to the shoes the same. If one shoe is closer to the drum than the other, it'll pull. Hope this helps..

 

Do you adjust the major or minor adjusters? What you suggest does not work on the Mopar brakes.

 

[keithb7]

I’m trying to decide how much I am willing to give up for that Amco brake tool. I’d like one. Or just upgrade to disc brakes. 

 

Jacking up the front and spinning the wheels to find minor adjustments worked pretty well for me. Major adjustments are not so easy. Pretty trickly to get trailing and leading shoe surfaces concentric to the axle shaft.  Otherwise, yup it’s seems the brakes are never as good as they could be. I know discs are in my future. I am just so frugal I won’t do that until my current shoes are spent. 

Edited April 13, 2019 by keithb7

[Plymouthy Adams]

I was informed by one of our members most recent that he loaned his tool out...after many months inquiring to get it back it came home rusted something awful......another person here also lent his and it came back incomplete/damaged if I recall...what was a good idea to help people has been made almost impossible due to this lack of respect/responsibility.  These tools are needed to set the shoes proper to ensure even wear and long life.   Any method to adjust outside of the proper tool is braking but at what percent effectiveness, what assurance of long life.  The tool however is not easily replaced and when not cared for by the borrower make anyone leery to loaning one out. 

 

Edited April 13, 2019 by Plymouthy Adams

[Don Coatney]

Loaning tools does not always have a bad ending. Several years ago I loaned a tool to a forum member. He used it and liked it. When he finished using the tool he contacted me and told me he wanted to buy the tool. I told hm I really did not want to sell it but I could use the money as I was out of work and looking for gainful employment. A few days later he sent me an airline ticket. I was sitting in his office and he hired me for the best job I ever had.

 

I have had many good experiences sharing and trading parts with forum members and one not so good. A forum member wanted a part that I had. So I refreshed the part and it was ready to drop in and run. In return I was supposed to get another part that I was told was rebuilt and ready to drop in and run. What I got was a bag full of incomplete pieces. After badgering this person for a very long time he finally sent me money to replace the part. But I don't soon forget and I continue to badger this forum member. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

happy for your good experiences Don...and until these remote episodes, I would suspect the others had similar...but with a tool that is costly and hard to come by to begin with...one has to ask if I got back junk will I be ok with that?   I have had good experiences, I have had bad experiences....of late it seems the bad outnumber the good...sadly without ownership it seems there is less pride and care exhibited...

[Bob Watson]

THANKS A MILLION--for the information---you guys are great--got the problem fixed--bleeding the lines a second time plus a minor shoe & pad adjustment solved my problem---the entire job was not easy--but, I learned a lot from doing it---THANKS AGAIN ?  BOB WATSON

[keithb7]

Hey how about I drive my Chrysler to someone in the Pacific Northwest, who posesses the Amco tool? We spend an hour or two together and set up my brakes? Properly once and for all!

[Dodgeb4ya]

5 hours ago, keithb7 said:

I’m trying to decide how much I am willing to give up for that Amco brake tool. I’d like one. Or just upgrade to disc brakes. 

 

Jacking up the front and spinning the wheels to find minor adjustments worked pretty well for me. Major adjustments are not so easy. Pretty trickly to get trailing and leading shoe surfaces concentric to the axle shaft.  Otherwise, yup it’s seems the brakes are never as good as they could be. I know discs are in my future. I am just so frugal I won’t do that until my current shoes are spent. 

Why not drive it till the shoes match wear into the drums 100% ? That's what I always did.. doing a quick minor adjust along the way?

Shops back in the day told customers to bring the car back for free brake adjusts....i learned that from brake shops here in Seattle back in the late 60's when i did my 51 Plymouth and had a hard time getting a high firm pedal.

It worked....although you need soft organic linings for these Lockheed brakes for best operation... not the hard dark linings.

[MarcDeSoto]

on loaning expensive tools to what is basically a stranger on the other side of the country, I almost think you would need to get a deposit of the amount it would take to replace the tool.  Then if it comes back in good condition you could refund the money.  I know you like to do the honor system, but as you said above sometimes that doesn't work. 

[55 Fargo]

2 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Why not drive it till the shoes match wear into the drums 100% ? That's what I always did.. doing a quick minor adjust along the way?

Shops back in the day told customers to bring the car back for free brake adjusts....i learned that from brake shops here in Seattle back in the late 60's when i did my 51 Plymouth and had a hard time getting a high firm pedal.

It worked....although you need soft organic linings for these Lockheed brakes for best operation... not the hard dark linings.

This absolutely works great. Learned this from you Sir.

Let the shoes wear in, and periodically adjust minor adjusters. 

Works great.

I have a bootleg tool for setting up shoes. It is no where near as accurate as the real deal.

Once the shoes are close and you have even contact heel and toe the shoe lining needs to wear into the drums.

Only substitute for a quickie wear in is a brake shoe radius grinder.

All this hooey you need the Ammco or Miller tool is just that hooey.

You gotta be careful on adjusting the majors and then let em wear in.

Or borrow the " tool" from Coatney or Adams if they have it or will lend it.

But you dont absolutely need it...

[Veemoney]

Here is a work-around I used for setting my brakes without the Amoco tool.

• You will need a good 12" scale,
• O.D. spring caliper, 
• 12" Dial caliper or Vernier
• A magnetic indicator base set-up with ideally a 1" travel indicator and to fabricate a collar with a nut as shown below. I just welded a nut to a collar made from pipe so I could screw the Magnetic base components to it. 

 

Below is how I do my brakes and depending on if you have a truck or car you will have some variances so review your manual but here are my basics and your ability to measure accurately will determine your success with this method. A manual gives the detail you need and some info for presets on cam arrows but that type of detail needs to come from the manual. Here are the basics and concept with this tool

1. Measure the drum ID. A good machinist should be able to get  within .015 with a scale but the preferred method as we are dealing in thousands of an inch here so to be right on the money use a Vernier or dial caliper, I.D. mic etc.
2. Install the indicator setup on the axle and use washers as need and the axle nut to secure indicator so it will not rotate. You want to rotate the axle only for these adjustments and measuring. The collar is not centered on the axle perfectly so it needs to not move once tightened down and all indicator readings are done by rotating the axle to rotate the collar. 
3. The idea is to set the brake shoes concentric and to .012" less than the drum ID. That is .006" less at each shoe for .012" total (for my application). Use the spring calipers to measure diameter of the pads so you don't have to compensate for the axle. Use the indicator to get the shoes concentric. When going from shoe to shoe I use my finger to prevent the indicator from springing. This may take a couple adjustments back and forth as moving one adjustment will have some effect on the other.
4. Once you have the shoes concentric and -.012 less than the ID of the drum all the way around I move the toe of each shoe in toward the axle another .006" using the toe cam (minor adjuster/s)
5.  Button things up if you like a little drag on the wheel as I do adjust the toe cam (minor adjuster/s) 

If you have someone that can do some machining you can make a pin to go in the indicator collar and a pointer (extending perpendicular to the shaft) for the other end of the collar shaft. It makes it easy to rough things in and set the radius (half the drum I.D. minus .006"). Plenty of variations on this approach to make it simpler.

 

Hope this helps some folks as those brake tools are not readily available. 

[Worden18]

Amco tool would be nice, but I did mine with a 12" caliper. I got them very close; after that it was super easy to set the minor adjustments.  

 

And just adding to this a little bit.  I measured from the OD of the shaft to the opposite side corners of each brake shoe until I was within .005

Edited April 14, 2019 by Worden18

[P15-D24]

Read this: http://p15-d24.com/page/p15d24/tech/brakes.html/