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Putting the engine back together

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I will be getting my block back from the machinist after having the cylinders bored, crank turned, and cam lobe built up, etc. and will proceed with putting it all back together.  I am looking for insight on recommendations of what others do for additional sealant used with the gaskets on the various engine parts when I put them on the block.  Are there specific products that should or shouldn’t be used for different applications? I have already redone the manifolds (and heat riser), putting the gasket between intake and exhaust and began to wonder if there should be an additional sealant.  This led me to consider the rest of the engine parts like water pump, oil pump, oil pan, timing cover, fuel pump, manifolds, etc.

Edited by Vet Doc
“heat riser” instead of “heat exchanger”

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I use grease only on most gaskets except the head and oil pan. On the head gasket I use spray paint on both sides. On the oil pan I use gasket sealant on the oil pan side and grease on the engine side and grease on both end pieces. This isn't what the book recommends but it works for me. By doing my recommendation on the oil pan gasket it is possible to remove the oil pan and re-install it without buying a new gasket. Do not trim the end pieces.

 

Pangasket1.jpg

Camisin.jpg

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Thanks for the advice and pics. Now I will have to consider hat color for the head gasket! Does the grease help the gasket ‘swell’? Also, is there any concern about the higher temperature spots like the exhaust manifold?

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On 3/16/2019 at 2:30 PM, Don Coatney said:

I use grease only on most gaskets except the head and oil pan. On the head gasket I use spray paint on both sides. On the oil pan I use gasket sealant on the oil pan side and grease on the engine side and grease on both end pieces. This isn't what the book recommends but it works for me. By doing my recommendation on the oil pan gasket it is possible to remove the oil pan and re-install it without buying a new gasket. Do not trim the end pieces.

 

Pangasket1.jpg

Camisin.jpg

Don, for the head gasket, do you select a metallic spray paint that has some amount of metal content in it, such as an aluminized paint?  I've heard of doing that and actually done that.  Alternatively, one could use one of the copper-containing head gasket sealants.  In any case, I think it's best not to overdo it.  As a teenager, I had a lawn mower engine that I partly disassembled and when I reassembled it, I used the old head gasket and some aluminum spray paint.  It worked well for a while, then seized up.  Upon disassembly, it appeared that excess paint had found its way into the cylinder, where it gummed up the piston and rings.  There was a ball of it in there.  I think I had sprayed it on somewhat thick.

 

Also, can you provide a few words of reassurance regarding bolt torque for things like oil pan bolts?  The torque values specified are so ridiculously low (in my mind), it seems like the bolts will fall out over time  Of course, with the gaskets being cork, the bolts can't be torqued very much because the gaskets het smashed and they'll split, causing leaks.  This seems to be my biggest problem.  Do you use thread locking compound on these bolts and on other gasket fasteners?  I see a bottle of it in the bottom photo of yours.

 

You've got quite a few miles in your engine now.  Any leaks so far?

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The oil pan bolts I used the "feel" method. Tight enough to slightly squeeze the cork but not so tight as to squish it. About the only thing I used a torque wrench on were the rod and main bearings. Everything else I did by feel. I have a slight leak from the rear of the oil pan but not enough to add oil between oil changes. All of these flathead engines like to mark there territory. 

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Everyone has their own ways, but I would never use grease on todays paper gaskets, they are sometimes poor enough without the grease swelling them and having possible premature failure.

 

the only gasket that need extra help are the oil pan, which I use permatex aviation gasket maker on pan side only, then ultra black where the end caps meeting the sides

 

chain case cover- av gasket maker both on gasket and on seal before I drive into the cover

 

water pump- just a few small dabs of gasket maker to hold gasket for install

 

head gasket- permatex copper high heat gasket spray on both sides on gasket (follow instructions on can)

 

intake shoukd need nothing unless its pitted, exhaust same thing, unless your installing headers

 

hope that helps

 

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1 hour ago, NiftyFifty said:

intake shoukd need nothing unless its pitted, exhaust same thing, unless your installing headers

I'm planning to install headers.  What special treatment do you recommend for them?

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14 minutes ago, Matt Wilson said:

I'm planning to install headers.  What special treatment do you recommend for them?

 

I’ve had my headers on a couple years now and instead of gaskets I used a very liberal application of Ultra Copper rtv, I put them on and just hand tightened the bolts, then came back 24 hours later and tightened them down.  I didn’t come up with this, I’ve got numerous friends that run this way after many gasket failures over the years and learned from them.

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6 hours ago, NiftyFifty said:

 

I’ve had my headers on a couple years now and instead of gaskets I used a very liberal application of Ultra Copper rtv, I put them on and just hand tightened the bolts, then came back 24 hours later and tightened them down.  I didn’t come up with this, I’ve got numerous friends that run this way after many gasket failures over the years and learned from them.

Ok, excellent info!  I wish I had known this before I took my block to the machine shop a few days ago to get the the manifold surface machined smooth.  It was badly pitted and I didn't want to chance running it that way, but it sounds like your approach would have filled in all the pits and sealed it off nicely.  Oh, well....

 

Did your friends have pitted gasket surfaces on the manifold and/or block?  Maybe that was the culprit behind the numerous failures you mentioned?

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   Vet doc, now that you have all the pieces, I would clean all the oil passage galley’s, run a tap through all the head bolt holes and clean all the crank and rod oil holes of any residue from the machine work. Also loosen the four bolts on the manifold and tighten them down as a unit to the block. The head, manifold, thermostat, water pump and a few timing cover holes go into the water jacket. I use a thread sealant at those. It will still allow you to re-torque the head, after run up. Machine shops are great but don’t always give you the cleanliness you need to restore an engine. You might even need to check ring end gap. Their tanking the block doesn’t clean everything, it just cleans the surface. 

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On 3/18/2019 at 3:13 PM, Matt Wilson said:

Ok, excellent info!  I wish I had known this before I took my block to the machine shop a few days ago to get the the manifold surface machined smooth.  It was badly pitted and I didn't want to chance running it that way, but it sounds like your approach would have filled in all the pits and sealed it off nicely.  Oh, well....

 

Did your friends have pitted gasket surfaces on the manifold and/or block?  Maybe that was the culprit behind the numerous failures you mentioned?

 

Most times it was flaws with the actual headers, or warpage after a few heat cycles that caused gasket failures, and them to go this route.  Maybe be different if they made a really heavy copper set for these trucks, but as far as I know, stock is only option and rtv seems to work better.

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18 hours ago, NiftyFifty said:

 

Most times it was flaws with the actual headers, or warpage after a few heat cycles that caused gasket failures, and them to go this route.  Maybe be different if they made a really heavy copper set for these trucks, but as far as I know, stock is only option and rtv seems to work better.

Ok, good to know.  I may just have to forego the gaskets and use the sealant to be on the safe side.  Thanks again.

Edited by Matt Wilson

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This is a typical picture of a machine shop hot tank cleaning of a Mopar oil pick up...they dont remove the tin cover to fully clean it...I always do...

This one I had to R&R the screen  ....re-crimp it... a hard thing to do right.

Definitely check all machine shop cleaning of all oil passages!

Leave No debris anywhere...

413 Oil Pick up Remove and clean screen and baffle re- assemble (12).JPG

413 Oil Pick up Remove and clean screen and baffle re- assemble (18).JPG

413 Oil Pick up Remove and clean screen and baffle re- assemble (17).JPG

413 Oil Pick up Remove and clean screen and baffle re- assemble (4).JPG

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Regarding the oil pickup, I kept that back from the machinist and cleaned it myself as you described.  I had seen warnings regarding that part specifically.  Fortunately, the machinist is relatively familiar with flatheads as he has one of his own that he inherited from his father.  (It is a 52 that was set up s a tow truck.). I will double check all of the oil passages, as well.  Thanks to all for the advice on gaskets and applications.  I really appreciate the advice and information that can be found here.

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Plugged!!! Judging by that picture that’s an understatement LOL When I pulled my oil pan on my original 218 it looked like tar, and had to scrape the “oil” out with a puddy knife

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On 3/20/2019 at 1:55 PM, Don Coatney said:

 

 

screwthecrud.jpg

 

A heads up on this sludge in engines that were running in the days of leaded gas. It contains tetraethyl lead deposits and it's usually found in higher concentrations in the "resting places" such as the oil wells for the tappets and in the pan. It never leaves the engine. It'll absorb through your skin if you don't wear gloves. If you blast parts with it on it, it becomes airborne if not contained well. When it goes in the hot tank or jet wash, the solution then becomes contaminated. Pay attention to anything that comes into contact - tools, rags, clothing, etc and clean or dispose of properly. It's easy to unknowingly bring it into your house where others might be exposed.

 

Helping a friend at his machine shop over the years, cleaning many old engines, made us realize that we have to be careful given the amount of times that we're exposed to this ****...

 

 

 

 

 

 

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