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1940 Plymouth P9 Access Door


BHondle'40
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Hello All!

 

I have reviewed the posts in answer to a question some years ago about the access door on the 1940 P9 Roadking coupe.  I was hopeful that someone would be so kind as to answer a question for me.  I have searched the internet and have not been able to get an answer to whether or not the access door on the passenger side of the 1940 P9 had a "tarp-like" cover over it, like the one that covers the spare tire behind the driver's seat.

 

The passenger side of my vehicle appears to have the remnants of was a tarp-like cover over the access door behind the passenger's seat, like that which appears behind the driver's side and covers the spare tire.  I have attached a picture of the remnant of the material on the passenger for your review.

 

 

 

In any event, would you kindly tell me whether there was a tarp-like cover over the access door behind the passenger seat, similar to that found behind the driver's seat that covers the spare tire?  Further, if any would kindly attach pictures of the access door and tarp-like covers then that would truly be appreciated as well.  I am in the process of restoring the vehicle and it is going to be a driver.

 

I thank you in advance for your anticipated courtesy and consideration.

 

Bruce Hondle

Passenger_Side.jpg

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good question, my 41 D19 has a hinged door with locking latch behind the passenger seat...are there any drilled holes that would suggest a set of hinges and a latch or comparing to the drivers side flap for the spare cover, which my D19 has also, does the surrounding frame similar to that of the other side....by comparison, you may be able to answer  your own question...hard to see by the picture, but in that a compartment or access to entire trunk space...?

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Here in Oz both the Dodge and Plymouth versions of the TJ Richards built 1940 Coupes solved that issue by creating a "golf Club" door on the Oz passenger side.........which probably just confuses the discussion but my 2 cents worth...........lol.......andyd1940PlymouthPic1.jpg.c28271441601d0786c32e102f2736c68.jpg 

DodgeCoupePics1.jpg

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my P10 has a  solid door hinged at the bottom with a latch behind the passenger seat.

 It is not very convenient to use.

 It has a canvas cover over the spare tire which is behind the driver's seat

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Los...........yep 100% Oz factory, the blue car is a 40 Plymouth, the other was my Oz 40 Dodge, both were made by TJ Richards by modifying an Oz 4dr sedan, they used 4dr front doors and a centre pillar, cut thru the original roof in the door opening, folded the cut 90degrees and rolled up the rest rearward and used 1/4" thick steel strapping to brace around the trunk lid etc, that small door opened into the front of the trunk and was the only way to get items that had moved to the front of the trunk, these had an unsplit bench seat that could move forward or back with a plywood panel and parcel shelf.the small side door was made of folded steel but the door opening in the body had a timber frame NAILED around the opening...........these Oz 1940 Coupes are quite rare, I've seen 4 since 1969 and pics of another 3, doubtful if more than 100 of both makes in total were made..........and that "continental" spare tyre mount at the rear is the factroy setup........andyd      

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Thank you "Plymouthy Adams" for your reply.  And, I am sorry it was difficult to discern the issue by the picture I attached.  I had quite a time reducing it below the 3 MB limit for uploading pictures, so I had to crop it more than I would have preferred.  But, yes, there is the a set of drill holes for the hinges behind the passenger seat.  I have the original locking access door (and key) and am in the process of repairing it at this time.  Like your '41 D19, the access door on my '40 P9 is hinged at the bottom of the door and opens inward toward the passenger seat.  The hinges are hidden when the access door is viewed from the interior side of things (when the passenger side of the bench seat is titled forward).  Behind the driver's seat, however, is the space for the spare tire that gets affixed to a plywood board that, in turn, gets attached to a cross-frame attached to the package tray and the floor pan.  There is no access door (or any other access to the trunk) that is located behind the driver's seat.  Rather, there is a tarp-like cover that is attached to the bottom of the horizontal "top frame" of the package tray (i.e., "back ledge") behind the the driver's seat and drapes downward over the spare tire behind the driver's seat.  That original cover is completely intact on my vehicle (although I will be replacing it with new fabric) so I don't have any question about it and therefore did not attach a picture in my initial post.  My question was trying to determine whether there was a similar or identical tarp-like cover over the access door that is behind the passenger seat, with the thought that perhaps the manufacturer was trying to aesthetically match the appearance on both sides with a cover (which may simply have been a laughable thought since I realize that this is a business coupe and is on the low-end of things so perhaps functionality rather than aesthetics would have been the goal - and further realizing that the cover would essentially be a constant nuisance to a businessman who used the access door).  But because I didn't know, I felt it would be appropriate to at least ask.  ?

 

Thank you "Andydodge" for your reply.  I had seen your blue '40 Plymouth in previous posts, and enjoyed seeing it again, and think I have finally figured out what "Oz" means, based on your location (which I hadn't figured out before)!  ? 

 

Thank you "dpollo" for your reply about your P10.  I am thinking that you and "Plymouthy Adams" may have confirmed in my mind that there was NOT a cover over the access door behind the passenger seat (irrespective of the fabric hanging down from the bottom of the package tray in my initial picture), and that the only cover was over the spare tire behind the driver's seat. 

 

Anyone out there disagree with this conclusion?  I realize that this conclusion presents me with a mystery, since I simply am unable to explain the reason for the fabric hanging down to the length of the floor on the passenger side.  You probably are unable to discern from the initial picture, but the right-hand side of the fabric (down the entire length of the fabric) appears to have be frayed, indicating that there was more material that was at one time attached to that had been ripped away.  I am attaching a second picture of that fabric, which shows that the fabric is attached to the bottom of the horizontal rail of the package tray.  I have simply flipped the fabric back on to the package tray in this picture, so you can see it is solidly attached to the rail (precisely like the cover over the spare tire on the driver's side).  I once again apologize that this picture is visibly smaller than what I would have preferred, but it is still 2.8 MB in size so that seems to be the best I will be able to do at present.  

 

A sincere "Thank You" to all who responded.  I have enjoyed reading a number of other posts from some of you, as I have been lurking for quite some time on this site and have been garnering some experience in working on my P9.  ?

 

Bruce Hondle

 

 

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My 39 dodge coupe has the access door with no tarp, and a tarp  over the spare behind the drivers seat.  Can't think of a reason to have a door and a tarp.  The door was to allow a salesman to access  sample books in the front of the trunk without climbing in from the back, or having to unload.  A tarp would  make things harder.  The spare was behind the  seat, again, so in the event of a flat, the trunk wouldn't have to be unloaded  to get at the tire.  My dodge is original in the area behind the seat, no sign of a tarp in front of the access door.  

 

brian b

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Thank you "brian b" for your reply.  It is totally logical that my 1940 Plymouth would follow the same procedure as was found in your 1939 Dodge.  It is totally reasonable that there would not be any tarp over the access door, and the existence of what appears to be the remnants of a tarp on my vehicle (as shown in the last picture of my previous post) is simply going to have to remain a mystery to me.   ?

 

Thanks again to everyone who responded in this matter.

 

Bruce Hondle

 

 

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Say "brian b", would you be so kind as to post a picture of the rear seat area of your '39 Dodge for me?  If that would be inconvenient for you then I would certainly understand.  I just have never seen an actual "original" view of the access door area, and am wondering how it looks as it is attached to the bottom of the horizontal "top frame" of the package tray.

Bruce

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  • 3 weeks later...

Bruce,

 

I finally got the right day with time to get the Dodge out and get some pictures.  Hope these help.  The edge of the shelf is steel covered in a varnished canvas.  The door is wood with the same varnished canvas on one side, and a sort of faux alligator skin material on the trunk facing side.  Two hinges hold it in place. The spare tire cover is rubberized canvas with fasteners on both sides.  I'm missing a couple, and a few don't align anymore, but it still does the job.  Thats a temp spare from a Jeep; a full width spare puts too much strain on the cover.  The trunk itself is big enough for four spares.  The space behind the tire is wood with metal framing, and the cover fasteners are on a wooden strip.  As far as I know this is all 1939 stuff.  I've never messed with any of it  and nothing looks like it was changed.  

 

                                                                                                                                                                                    sorry for the delay.......

 

                                                                                                                                                                                         brian b

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46 minutes ago, brian b said:

 

DSCN2259.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

Is it just the picture or does your cubby behind the passenger side of the seat go all the way into the trunk or is it a finished interior separate of the trunk.....I ask as my 41 Dodge bz cp is a separate compartment that is not much deeper than the area shared by the spare tire recess...I was amazed to see the tire having a recessed floor also...

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Brian, thanks for the pics.......so that passenger side access door opens into the trunk? or is it only a few inches deep?..........do you know how this compares to the setup used in the 1940 Dodge or Plymouth Business Coupes............thanks, andyd  

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The trunk is completely open past the inside door.  You can open the access door, put down the passenger seat, and haul lumber in it.  There is no divider, all one big trunk. Not sure how the 40 or 41's were set up.  40's seem similar to 39's,  41's are very different.

Very practical for car shows.  You don't have to worry about what to take, coolers, chairs, etc, take everything.  Old cars could really be practical.  Business coupes were pretty much pickups with a trunk lid.

 

                                                                                                 brian b

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Interesting that with that door open and the passenger seat folded you would be able to fit long lengths of timber, the Oz 1939 & 1940 Coupes had a fixed plywood panel behind the bench seat..........you mention the 1941 differences......yes indeed ........most people think that all the 1941 Plymouths were Business Coupes.....so did I, until I bought my 41 Plymouth Coupe which was a factory RHD, ASC or Auxillary Seat Coupe with the small twin folding seat bases that folded into and behind the lifted up seat base......it was a weird setup, with the seats there, kids up to maybe 10-12 would have been comfortable, adults would have had their knees around their ears the seats were so low.................lol........ and then when the seats were folded you still had the seat back starring at you with nothing to sit on or so it seemed........but plenty of luggage space ..........lo.............this pic is the only one I have of the now sold cars rear seat, you can just make out the single folding metal support at the front edge of the US drivers side rear seat..........you had to reach under the bottom edge of the seat back and pull the whole seat back forward, it pivoted at the top and once it was horizontal with the top of the front seat you then lifted each small seat into the interior rear wall and folded the metal support .......once each seat was folded you then got yourself out of the way and the seat back was pivoted back down to the vertical with the folded seats covered up...........the spare tyre lived in the trunk............regards, andyd    

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Cruel as they were,  I think the whole concept of the ASC  or club coupe as ford called them, was to do away  with the rumble seat, and get everyone inside the car out of the rain and dirt.  I've seem fairly late model pick up trucks with the side mounted seats; just as cramped and uncomfortable as the old cars, unless you were a little kid.  Again, I think the idea was get everyone inside, as riding in the bed wasn't legal anymore.  Andy,  your 41 had a great looking interior, and the red paint looks close to mine.  Really like the red piping.

 

                                                                                                                             brian b

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Brian............thanks for the comments re the interior, thats how it was when I bought it, only thing was that the previous owner was apparently 6'4" and the seat back was broken and the seat base wasn't much better, you actually sat in the seat and it was so low that you looked thru the steering wheel................lol......so I took the seat to an upholsterer and had them disassemble it and rebuild the springs and internal braces and brackets and reinstall the upholstery........did a great job and it became a comfortable car to drive..............I still wish I didn't sell it...........duh!!..............lol..........BTW just saw on that pic I posted of the interior the edge of the rain gutter......see how its been buffed thru!..........thats how it was, a good 20foot paint job, tho' how someone could buff thru the rain gutters is beyond me........lol.........so I just left it as it was, with a polish and a wash it looked good...............lol............andyd  

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Brian, I VERY MUCH THANK YOU for posting pictures of your '39 Dodge access door area.  My '40 Plymouth is identical.  And your pictures solved the mystery for me (with regard to the material on the left-hand side of the picture that I had initially posted in this matter).  The material that is hanging-down in my picture is material that get wrapped-around the left edge of the frame for the access door (i.e., the material covers the metal against which the access door closes) in order to provide a uniform appearance.  So the material that I have shown in my initial posting must get glued (presumably) to the metal frame against which the access door closes.

 

As I mentioned, the setup and appearance of your '39 Dodge is precisely the same as my '40 Plymouth (except yours is in WAY better shape ?), right down to the color of the tarp and the backing that is shown on the access door itself, and the fact that the access door provides access to the entire trunk area with no further divider (as Plymouth Adams mentioned in his post with regard to his '41 Dodge).  Another "bonus" your pictures provided to me is the fact that the package tray (back ledge) appears to be covered in the same tarp material, which I had never even considered before.

 

So, you have solved my mystery for which I, again, greatly thank you, as well as the others who responded!

 

Bruce

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Thank you Robert, for the picture of your '38 Plymouth Coupe, which was quite interesting, and functional, I might add.  So there appears to be one solid drop-down cover for the entire space, right?  Does the cover have some kind of fasteners at the top to keep it closed, and is it hinged on the bottom?

Bruce

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Brian b my 39 dodge is exactly the same as yours I found some nice tan vinyl material and am in the process of covering everything that was leather or vinyl or what ever that material was and am going to cover the access door with the same vinyl to see how it looks. I am having a hard time finding new grommets and swivils for the tarp that covers the spare tire any one have any Idea where I might get them.  Thanks Gary  

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e-bay would have these...also Restoration Specialties......you can visit their catalog online....they go by LIFT THE DOT and COMMON SENSE FASTENERS

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=common+sense++fasteners&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=lift+the+dot+fasteners&LH_TitleDesc=0

Edited by Plymouthy Adams
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