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230 dodge w/Edgy aluminum head, problems

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Just built a 230 Dodge motor w/ Edgy aluminum head. I,m not getting any water flow thru the head & top of the block. Thermostat is opening, good flow thru radiator.. Do I need a different head gasket?? or what to they mean by internal bypass water pump &  the hole that has to be drilled in the head. Here is a picture of my setup.  Grateful for any help!!!!

THANKS IN ADVANCE

IMG_0905.JPG

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57 minutes ago, rodguyvic said:

 I,m not getting any water flow thru the head & top of the block. Thermostat is opening, good flow thru radiator.

This needs clarification. There's no way coolant can flow through radiator without flowing through head. Is overheating your problem?

 

Earl recommended Fel-Pro gasket with his head. Regular Mopar copper gaskets may not work well with aluminum head, unless they were purposely designed for such use. I also noticed you did not use washers under head bolts. Hard steel washers are must with aluminum head, otherwise you won't get proper torquing.

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I’m looking at your pic and the first question I have is what kind of head bolts did you use? They don’t appear at first glance to be arp, as they are polished. The correct bolts are relieved on the sides to allow for water flow around the bolts. Got pics of the bolts?

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10 minutes ago, Mark D said:

I’m looking at your pic and the first question I have is what kind of head bolts did you use? They don’t appear at first glance to be arp, as they are polished. The correct bolts are relieved on the sides to allow for water flow around the bolts. Got pics of the bolts?

there is no exchange of water to the head from the block via the head bolts...the bolts go into the block and enter the water jacket..thus the need for sealant and the relief is for purpose of any by pass creating rust and seizing bolt to head as a result...

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1 hour ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

there is no exchange of water to the head from the block via the head bolts...the bolts go into the block and enter the water jacket..thus the need for sealant and the relief is for purpose of any by pass creating rust and seizing bolt to head as a result...

 

Can you please explain how the factory head differs?

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Mark, I do not know where the confusion lies but the bolt holes go into the water jacket and should be sealed against leakage in the block so that NO water will seep by to the bolt...AND IF for some reason there is water flow by albeit due to improper seal, the relieve on the head bolt is there to aide in the bolt not rusting and seizing to the head and weakening/impeding them from being removed.  Look closely at your head....the coolant passages to the head from the block are inside of the row of bolts on the starter side of the block...down the middle of the block and in between but in line with the head bolts on the manifold side.  The thermostat and by-pass are part of the head and not that of the block or head bolt related just so not to cause any confusion in that area.   Now, you can explain why you think the water passing through the head bolt holes....I will be happy to listen....

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1 hour ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

Mark, I do not know where the confusion lies but the bolt holes go into the water jacket and should be sealed against leakage in the block so that NO water will seep by to the bolt...AND IF for some reason there is water flow by albeit due to improper seal, the relieve on the head bolt is there to aide in the bolt not rusting and seizing to the head and weakening/impeding them from being removed.  Look closely at your head....the coolant passages to the head from the block are inside of the row of bolts on the starter side of the block...down the middle of the block and in between but in line with the head bolts on the manifold side.  The thermostat and by-pass are part of the head and not that of the block or head bolt related just so not to cause any confusion in that area.   Now, you can explain why you think the water passing through the head bolt holes....I will be happy to listen....

 

Tim - I thought I had read there was some coolant circulating in to the head around the head bolts.  I recall when I replaced my head gasket 7 years ago that the studs had wet rusty coolant all over the relief.  Apologies but I must be mistaken as to the coolant passages.  Thanks again for the lesson, but quite frankly the format of your last two sentences is quite off-putting.  

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was not written to be off-putting...was written to be informative and as I had no picture to post, I had to explain in words the location of the coolant passages head to block and the purpose of the bolt shaft being undercut...….did not in any manner mean to sound otherwise..I did ask you to explain your thoughts as often things are written in a manner than can be confusing and if this was the case...I would listen to what you have to say....

Edited by Plymouthy Adams

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2 hours ago, Don Coatney said:

This might or might not help.

 

MVC-015F.jpg

DAYUM,DON! You even painted your ratchet handle to match your engine!  That's taking it the extra step,brother!

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Mark,are these the new production Edgy heads,or the old production?

 

Either way,if it were me,I would be contacting the Dodge Boys in Montana to ask for their input on what the problem is and what to do to solve it. They are the ones having the current production Edgy heads made,so they know about them as well as the ones they are having made today that are slightly different.

 

It's hard to go wrong contacting the manufacturers.

 

BTW,if you do contact them,PLEASE post what they told you here so we can all benefit from it.

Edited by knuckleharley

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1 minute ago, knuckleharley said:

Mark,are these the new production Edgy heads,or the old production?

 

Either way,if it were me,I would be contacting the Dodge Boys in Montana to ask for their input on what the problem is and what to do to solve it. They are the ones having the current production Edgy heads made,so they know about them as well as the ones they are having made today that are slightly different.

 

It's hard to go wrong contacting the manufacturers.

 

it is rodguyvic who is having the heating issues.....

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14 hours ago, rodguyvic said:

Just built a 230 Dodge motor w/ Edgy aluminum head. I,m not getting any water flow thru the head & top of the block. Thermostat is opening, good flow thru radiator.. Do I need a different head gasket?? or what to they mean by internal bypass water pump &  the hole that has to be drilled in the head. Here is a picture of my setup.  Grateful for any help!!!!

THANKS IN ADVANCE

IMG_0905.JPG

 

The problem may be the wrong thermostat.  The thermostat housing in the picture is a by-pass housing like the ones used on earlier blocks without the internal bypass. I've seen three different designs for these housings and each requires a unique thermostat (the old bellows type that don't work in a pressurized system) to block the by-pass passage in the front of the housing when the engine is warm and the thermostat open. If the by-pass passage isn't blocked, too much coolant by-passes the radiator and just circulates within the block. A later housing made for a wax pellet type thermostat may cure the problem. I ran into this  a while back and it drove me nuts until I figured it out. If the housing in the picture is a P18 type, Stant makes a thermostat/adapter package that will work  correctly in the P18 housing. Hope this  helps.

DSC07572.jpg

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The OP hasn't been back to update.  I'm having a problem understanding the problem and need more info.  How can there be good radiator flow, but not head and top of block?  All the flow to the radiator comes from the head.

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The water pump discharges into the block through distribution tube, and a hoe in the front of the block just below the head.  Water flowing from the head goes to the top of the radiator when the t stat opens. So if it's flowing, the upper hose should be warm.  I certainly wouldn't be chancing any overheating and warping my pretty new aluminum head till it was fully sorted. Wonder I'd there is casting sand plugging the head passages?  Were it me before I mounted the head I would Gorilla tape the passages from block to head and the stat opening and put some compressed air into the heater port and make sure the head passages were clear.

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34 minutes ago, greg g said:

The water pump discharges into the block through distribution tube, and a hoe in the front of the block just below the head.  Water flowing from the head goes to the top of the radiator when the t stat opens. So if it's flowing, the upper hose should be warm.  I certainly wouldn't be chancing any overheating and warping my pretty new aluminum head till it was fully sorted. Wonder I'd there is casting sand plugging the head passages?  Were it me before I mounted the head I would Gorilla tape the passages from block to head and the stat opening and put some compressed air into the heater port and make sure the head passages were clear.

Yeah, but he stated that the flow in the radiator was good.  the hose into the radiator comes from the head.  AFAIK.there is no way to determine the flow through the head other that observing the radiator hose flow.  So, what exactly is the observed probem?  That is my question.

 

If it were mine, I'd be shooting the head temp with an laser thermometer, available at HF cheaply.  If there is a problem that would show it up easily.

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I also use a restrictor washer in my 218 with an edgy head and have had no problems with cooling. I also used arp block studs for head and you really need to

seal those studs and retorque. Not a big fan of thermostats on vehicles that sit so much between uses

0820874A-4393-4869-BB5A-11991232D991.jpeg

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