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My First Car -- P15 1947 Plymouth Deluxe


NickPickToo
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Nick...........the engines been waiting for for over 70 years for someone to show it that they love it again..........please paint it, silver is original but honestly any colour so long as its painted with a colour and shown that its loved..........clear is for putting over the final colour coats on the body...........rust is for those that don't care..............andyd. 

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I have to first admit i didnt read the whole thread,its pretty long and i need to get ready for work soon. 
i skipped to the end only to find you are still working on the car. 
Awesome!

i would enjoy helping/teaching a young person that is taking interest in the old iron. All the younguns around here wanna roll coal. And dump tens of thousands into a current model vehicle and have nothing special at the end of it. 
 

i can truly respect the work you are doing,and my hat’s off to your parents for supporting and raising a determined young man. 
 

I did have a friend’s nephew hang out off and on for a couple years,

and we had a good time.

we talked about everything, family, work and friends and the importance of all of them. 
he now has full time work in the construction industry,and secured year round work mainly due to his work ethics. 
 

I can see from this project you will do well in the future,pat yourself on the back, you deserve it!

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21 hours ago, NickPickToo said:
10 hours ago, Andydodge said:

Nick...........the engines been waiting for for over 70 years for someone to show it that they love it again..........please paint it, silver is original but honestly any colour so long as its painted with a colour and shown that its loved..........clear is for putting over the final colour coats on the body...........rust is for those that don't care..............andyd. 

 

Don't worry.  I was only almost tempted to keep the patina.  Planning on a silver with black engine with something to draw contrast in-between for the engine bay and under the hood.    Already paid for the high heat primer and high heat silver, both two part paints, so I'm committed.  For the record however, we do plan on keeping patina on the drive shaft.  The drive shaft only.  I can see it in my mind and It's going to look good contrasted against the black frame and undercoating that will eventually go on the body and only show if someone is curious enough to get down and look.

Edited by NickPickToo
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On 11/4/2019 at 7:42 PM, NickPickToo said:

My great uncle is a big AMS oil fan and has asked us to use it in this project.  We're keeping him posted on how it goes.  When I say 90 wt I really mean AMSoil gear oil.  We have read that that stuff is less an issue on rubber but we didn't read that directly from AMS oil.

hi

I have a 1951 Dodge crusader,, it had 99439 miles went i got it,,  it run on full AMSOIL.  10w30 AMSOIL  " Z-ROD ""  Synthetic Motor Oil is specially engineered for classic and high-performance vehicles. A high-zinc formulation to prevent wear on flat-tappet camshafts and other critical engine components, along with a proprietary blend of rust and corrosion inhibitors for added protection during long-term storage.  Also the 3 speeds tranny and the rear axle runs on Amsoil gear lube,  I almost forget for all the grease nipples, there is Synthetic Multi-Purpose Grease NLGI #2..  And amsoil engine oil for all other 5 drops there 10 drops here, you know the drill,,  lol!!!

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4 minutes ago, lepic56 said:

hi

I have a 1951 Dodge crusader,, it had 99439 miles went i got it,,  it run on full AMSOIL.  10w30 AMSOIL  " Z-ROD ""  Synthetic Motor Oil is specially engineered for classic and high-performance vehicles. A high-zinc formulation to prevent wear on flat-tappet camshafts and other critical engine components, along with a proprietary blend of rust and corrosion inhibitors for added protection during long-term storage.  Also the 3 speeds tranny and the rear axle runs on Amsoil gear lube,  I almost forget for all the grease nipples, there is Synthetic Multi-Purpose Grease NLGI #2..  And amsoil engine oil for all other 5 drops there 10 drops here, you know the drill,,  lol!!!

I could not have stated this any better. I have been doing the same for a number of Hot Rod builds. I look at it as an insurance policy on all your hard work...

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46 minutes ago, Bobby said:

I could not have stated this any better. I have been doing the same for a number of Hot Rod builds. I look at it as an insurance policy on all your hard work...

After buying my Dodge, even if the engine was rebuilt,  when??  I did not know when, So First I wanted to used a engine flush and after Amsoil, but I skipped the flush and when direct with Amsoil, after 500 miles the oil is turning black,, it doing it job. 

So after the winter storage, I will change the oil again, and use the engine flush, change the filter again and back with Amsoil 10w30 .   I always said '' if it makes noise and don,t have a mother, use Amsoil,,  

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7 hours ago, lepic56 said:

hi

I have a 1951 Dodge crusader,, it had 99439 miles went i got it,,  it run on full AMSOIL.  10w30 AMSOIL  " Z-ROD ""  Synthetic Motor Oil is specially engineered for classic and high-performance vehicles. A high-zinc formulation to prevent wear on flat-tappet camshafts and other critical engine components, along with a proprietary blend of rust and corrosion inhibitors for added protection during long-term storage.  Also the 3 speeds tranny and the rear axle runs on Amsoil gear lube,  I almost forget for all the grease nipples, there is Synthetic Multi-Purpose Grease NLGI #2..  And amsoil engine oil for all other 5 drops there 10 drops here, you know the drill,,  lol!!!

Our engine builder agreed that AMS Z-Rod would be good for the long run, however he was insistent that we broke it in with normal 10w30 and a Zinc additive for about the first 500 miles.  

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I would trust the guy that does it everyday and you are paying for his expertise... I have been known to add Zinc way past 500... Call me a weirdo but, I love my Valve Seats and they love me

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I've been running Valvoline VR1 Racing oil in the VW Beetle for many years. It is a high-zinc lubricant (I use straight 30W). I hadn't thought about using it in the P15 but will take it under consideration.

 

Nick....sorry about the thread creep!   ?

 

https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/motor-oil/vr1-racing-oil

 

https://www.amazon.com/Valvoline-10W-30-VR1-Racing-Motor/dp/B00DJ4FMK2

 

Val-PCMO-VR1-Racing-product.ashx?h=384&l

Edited by Sam Buchanan
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38 minutes ago, Sam Buchanan said:

Nick....sorry about the thread creep!   ?

 

Not an issue.  This thread is already more like a the main cable on the golden gate.  Makes it fun to check in more often

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2 hours ago, Bobby said:

I would trust the guy that does it everyday and you are paying for his expertise... I have been known to add Zinc way past 500... Call me a weirdo but, I love my Valve Seats and they love me

To clarify.  Mr Adams said to use zinc always, but If I would like to switch to synthetic with zinc (z-rod) that I should break it in for 500 with normal 30 wt and zinc first.

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Our engine builder(now retired) had me use straight 30 non detergent for break in. Been running regular 10w40 ever since. Put about 25k on that engine so far and the oil pressure is just as good as day 1

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13 minutes ago, Young Ed said:

Our engine builder(now retired) had me use straight 30 non detergent for break in. Been running regular 10w40 ever since. Put about 25k on that engine so far and the oil pressure is just as good as day 1

Mr Adams did explain that until more recently adding the zinc was not as much an issue, but regulatory changes to how the oil is now mixed makes it more of an issue.  I personally don't have a clue, but Mr Adams had some really nice engines and pictures of engines in his shops and some really cool tools too.  Not to mention that putting something called "Z-Rod" in the engine sound sick as heck.

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On 12/10/2019 at 5:57 AM, Andydodge said:

..........rust is for those that don't care..............andyd. 

Okay, now locked in with primer for anything but patina.  but not gonna lie, that patina covered head with new bolts was really hard to pass on.  Sometimes it has a certain aesthetic, and it's like painting over someones art.  When it's done right, you can tell the artist really cared.  

 

Transmission is ready to go too!  We ended up replacing, seals, gaskets, bearings, small parts stuff, the synchronizer and the synchro stops.  The rest of the gears had good teeth except reverse which was still in decent shape for another 5 to 10 years or more (that's a guess).   Dad says that by the time reverse gives out it will be time to upgrade to a newer trans and differential anyway.  He also called that cost-benefit.   By then It will be 100% my cost which is to his benefit.      

 

It all in 2k, high heat engine primer.  Two coats  

IMG_0424.jpg

IMG_0431.jpg

IMG_0432.jpg

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1 hour ago, NickPickToo said:

Okay, now locked in with primer for anything but patina.  but not gonna lie, that patina covered head with new bolts was really hard to pass on.  Sometimes it has a certain aesthetic, and it's like painting over someones art.  When it's done right, you can tell the artist really cared.  

IMG_0424.jpg

 

 

 

 

I'm with you, Nick, that bare head with the new bolts looks like a rare piece of expensive antique jewelry. Gorgeous!

 

But it's a moot point now, you will have a beautiful engine that meets the approval of the artistic non-sophisticates in the group.  ?

Edited by Sam Buchanan
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Sam.........how dare you insinuate that I am artistic.........lol.............I can fart in the bath with the best of them.............oops......sorry I thought you said fartistic............lol..........andyd

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11 hours ago, NickPickToo said:

Mr Adams did explain that until more recently adding the zinc was not as much an issue, but regulatory changes to how the oil is now mixed makes it more of an issue.  I personally don't have a clue, but Mr Adams had some really nice engines and pictures of engines in his shops and some really cool tools too.  Not to mention that putting something called "Z-Rod" in the engine sound sick as heck.

 

You don't necessarily need the Z-Rod oil, Nick. I use the Premium Protection version. It still has zinc, and it is a few cents less per quart.

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/gasoline/premium-protection-10w-40-synthetic-motor-oil/?code=AMOQT-EA

 

 
Quote

 

Product Highlights

For use in both gasoline and diesel engines. Offers multi-functionality and wear protection. Ideal for applications where the extra protection of a higher-viscosity oil is desired. Excellent for motor homes and older vehicles, as well as many types of modern equipment and compatible with some motorcycles.

 

AMSOIL Premium Protection Synthetic Motor Oil is formulated to provide superior protection and performance in a wide variety of demanding applications. Its unique combination of synthetic base oils and a superior additive package results in a formulation that exceeds the requirements of most gasoline or diesel applications that call for 10W-40 or 20W-50 motor oil. Premium Protection Synthetic Motor Oil is ideal for high-mileage vehicles and high-stress vehicles subject to hot temperatures, heavy hauling, trailer pulling or off-road use. It provides the extra anti-wear protection required by engines with flat-tappet cams and high-tension valve springs. AMSOIL Premium Protection Synthetic Motor Oil offers flexibility and performance beyond conventional oils.

 

 

Edited by Merle Coggins
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10 hours ago, Young Ed said:

are those grade 8 hardware store bolts?

So...they were ordered as Head bolts but...they certainly look like your common variety grade eights to me.  Complete with the slash marks on the top.  Hmmm.  I'll ask my dad to follow up with Mr. Adams.  Nice catch

Edited by NickPickToo
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So heres the story on the bolts.  Initially the job quoted was for the engine internals, but Dad asked if he could clean, service and mount the head as well as clean and resurface the flywheel.  Dad checked the invoice and the charge for the washers and head bolts was pretty small $38. Mr Adams gave dad the heads up that he just used grade 8.  He said they were better then our old bolts, which he gave back to us, which were worn, stretched and some bent, and that if we wanted to source proper bolts for this we could find them as cheap as he could.  He said my old bolt with the tapped heads (where the spring for the throttle attached) was in pretty good shape and I could probably reuse that and just look for proper head bolts for the rest.   

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the style/shape of the head bolts are specific and should not be replaced with straight shank bolts which is most likely what they have installed.  While strength wise they are more than capable...the problem will be in the straight shank as they may well seize to the head and break on removal.  The factory bolt will have a short boss below the head then undercut to the beginning of the threads.  This is due to the bolts going into a water jacket and possible bypassing of water from the jacket to the area between the bot and the head.  Personally I would source these new and swap them out one for one before starting the engine, that way when your engine is up to temp and retorque of the head being the next step, your final squish with the proper bolts and clearance for rust will be ensured.

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