Help picking a motor for my 1940 chrysler

[Ajgkirkwood]

Hello there. Name ia Adam. First post on this forum. Been trying to join for alittle while but the sign up gave me issues.... Btw what is the difference between a business and club coupe?

This is my first classic and its a 1940 chrysler windsor 2 door. I have always wanted a coupe but never looked at getting on cause they are so much money. The car came up and the price was more then right. I had to make it happen. Had to get it.

The car was owned by a man the same age as the car and with help from people it was kept running up till about last year. I was say and from what i heard it was driven hard and put away wet kinda thing. The orginal engine puked (he was on an lucas oil stabilizer fix from what i was told. Kept topping up with lucas. When the motor was pulled the crank i was told was blue!)

So they got hold of a replacement motor. A 264 from a 1954 chrysler. The motor had a rebuild tag from 1964 and when they put the motor in about 2 years ago they cleaned out the pan and put new gaskets from what i was told. The motor had a carter 1bb carb that i guess was worn out so it was bored open and the jet drilled out. Well i guess it ate fuel.

So now you have alittle back story ill get to the point. The car i got on the road and have been enjoying it. Didnt run but after a tune up it fired right up (2 of the 7 spark plug wires were completey corroded. It fell apart in my hands) when i did drive it i got like 6mpg. Did some messing around with the 1bb and it got better. I have switched to a 2 barrel and performance and fuel economy improved however im getting like 16-17mpg driving softly. 

I like to have better fuel economy for sure so i plan to switch the back axle. Which would be best and easy that im not sure of yet. I want to put disk brakes all around so guidance here would help.

I have it running on 6v (it had a 8v battery) im thinking about going to 12v for easier starting and maybe put a radio in etc.

now for the sinning. Beware those with sensitive stomachs dont continue reading

you been warned....

the 264 in the car is mated to the orginal 3 speed of the 1940. It pulls aright but i like to have a bit more power. I like to get hold of a 4 or 5 speed thats synced. If i keep the flathead i like to do a draw through turbo and hide is to make it still look stock and look like its n/a at first glance. Not talking alot of boost. About 5-7psi.

the motor however i wonder needs a rebuild? I do lose some oil over time. My oil pressure is about 25 going 50mph. Maybe 28-30 going over 60 mph. When i first got it running it smoked really bad and had alot of blow by. Its cleaned up alot since then (doing like 10 oil changes helps) so with all this said i think ill be pulling out the engine some how. I dont know how much it cost me to rebuild but it leads me to think if i rebuild it. It might be better to put that money into another motor to get the power im after? This leads me to the v8 (yes i know, boring. I rather the flathead) i have access to a 318 that had  short block rebuilt for cheap. Its all cast though. But it be easier to get the transmission i want mated to this engine. I might turbo this motor too so its not like everyone else.

i dont want to spent tons and im afraid rebuilding the flathead will cost the same or more then the v8

pic is of the car the day i got it running

[55 Fargo]

The 265 engine should have lots of power, when in good condition and set up.

Add dual or tri carb intake and carbs, split exhaust or headers, and you will see a big difference.

Now if this engine is tired and old, and needs a rebuild, then of course it will be down on power.

Now with the 3 spd trans, is it mated to a fluid drive clutch?

This is a bit of a deal breaker with more modern transmissions, if it's a fluid drive clutch, then you have 2 choices, a 3spd overdrive trans with the long input shaft for the FD clutch or converting to dry clutch.

Now with a dry clutch you have some choices, 1 is a Chrysler A833 4 spd overdrive trans, by using a simple adapter plate it's not a real tough swap, there are other options.

Your oil pressure is down, should be 55-60 psi cruising and 30-40 psi idling and warm.

The 265 is a great engine, and the most powerful with the longest stroke, and in good form should move that car along just fine.

On the 3 spd trans, yes you could swap rear gears to say 3.54s, or go to a donor diff, say a Chrysler 8 1/4 with 3.55 gears and modern brakes.

As far as a V8 swap, a lot more involved, engine most likely will need to be off center to clear steering box, fabbing and fiddling, a 360 mopar and a 727/904 trans could be nice...I like your car

Edited November 2, 2017 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[Ajgkirkwood]

From what  understand the motor was a 265 with fluid drive. Its now mated to my 3 speed manual. I think they manged to get the transsmition to bolt up by ovaling the holes on the bell housing.

if i go the turbo route i would make better flowing intake and header. I love to have 3 1barrel carbs on it

i know ill have some fab work to do but from reading what i could find before the 318/360 is one of the easier motors  put in. I have to go manual. I hate auto haha.

last one is thr day it pasted its safety

[55 Fargo]

PM Tim Kingsbury outta Milton Ontario.

He can help you out with a  lot of your questions.

They build engines intakes headers and grind cams....good luck

[55 Fargo]

Here is Kevs tri carb turbo Stude flathead6, we won't be prejudiced on the fact it's a Stude as this would work well with a Mopar too...

 

[greg g]

In 2007 I rebuilt a 230 engine.  I delivered the engine to the machine shop.  Disassembly, hot tanking, boring, milling the deck balancing, matching the fly wheel and reassembly to short block status with milled head wads about 700.00, parts, head bolts  new pistons, rings, main, rod,and cam bearings, freeze plugs, timing chain gaskets and water pump ran about 850.00.  Starter Bendix rebuild, and hoses, fluids, and tune up items and carb rebuild added another 200.00 or so.  Engine hoist rental paint and misc hardware was 150.00.

[55 Fargo]

Tims 49 Plymouth, the race car, both highly modified 265s..

 

[55 Fargo]

2 minutes ago, greg g said:

In 2007 I rebuilt a 230 engine.  I delivered the engine to the machine shop.  Disassembly, hot tanking, boring, milling the deck balancing, matching the fly wheel and reassembly to short block status with milled head wads about 700.00, parts, head bolts  new pistons, rings, main, rod,and cam bearings, freeze plugs, timing chain gaskets and water pump ran about 850.00.  Starter Bendix rebuild, and hoses, fluids, and tune up items and carb rebuild added another 200.00 or so.  Engine hoist rental paint and misc hardware was 150.00.

Greg things have changed a lot in 10 years, prices in Canada are often higher too.

I wish I could build my 265 for the price you did yours, not these days Im afraid....

[Ajgkirkwood]

11 minutes ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

Here is Kevs tri carb turbo Stude flathead6, we won't be prejudiced on the fact it's a Stude as this would work well with a Mopar too...

 

 

11 minutes ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

Here is Kevs tri carb turbo Stude flathead6, we won't be prejudiced on the fact it's a Stude as this would work well with a Mopar too...

 

I seen this a few times.  This is part of my inspiration

[Bryan]

I would determine what your goals/funds are and then do in stages.  If you are not going to compete in shows or not worried about resale value and want more  power then a swap might be better/cheaper. Go look at the price of overhaul kits for the present engine vs a 60-70s engine.  If you keep the present engine, would overhaul first, drive around and get the feel of it, if you get bored after a while then add dual headers and multi carbs, high energy ignition. If you get bored with that and have the funds then add a turbo, but don't expect the overhaul to last very long.  Lower end crankshaft/mains strength and old piston designs probably aren't suited for a turbo.  Do things in stages to have something to compare against.

[55 Fargo]

Here is my 55 fargo, with a very tried 228 engine, but with a George Asche Tim Kingsbury dual carb intake headers and dual exhaust.

I am building a 265 for this truck, which will have a Chrysler A833 trans too

 

 

[Ajgkirkwood]

If thats usd ill screwed here in canada. The 318 with rebuild heads and other parts will be 400-500. Will need to find a trans. He has an auto...

[55 Fargo]

Just now, Bryan said:

I would determine what your goals/funds are and then do in stages.  If you are not going to compete in shows or not worried about resale value and want more  power then a swap might be better/cheaper. Go look at the price of overhaul kits for the present engine vs a 60-70s engine.  If you keep the present engine, would overhaul first, drive around and get the feel of it, if you get bored after a while then add dual headers and multi carbs, high energy ignition. If you get bored with that and have the funds then add a turbo, but don't expect the overhaul to last very long.  Lower end crankshaft/mains strength and old piston designs probably aren't suited for a turbo.  Do things in stages to have something to compare against.

Bryan while the 265 when rebuilt will have some grunt and be in the neighborhood of 125 -130 hp, by just milling the head.

The 265 will come alive and rev a lot better with a higher lift cam, add the carbs and headers and a lot more torque and HP.

Your advice  is good and nothing wrong with doing things in stages, if he keeps the fluid drive coupler, this car will never be neck snapping though....

[55 Fargo]

Just now, Ajgkirkwood said:

If thats usd ill screwed here in canada. The 318 with rebuild heads and other parts will be 400-500. Will need to find a trans. He has an auto...

Yes it is not cheap to rebuild an engine, but do the math, with the donor engine and say a A904 trans, all the items to make the swap work, might be the price of a basic rebuild on your engine.

Hey but in the end, your car, your money = your way....

[Ajgkirkwood]

Thing is from looking. I cant seem to find connecting rods and pistons for it. If i knew a good lead it keep the flathead.

 

How i know if it has a fluid cupler

[Adam H P15 D30]

8 minutes ago, Bryan said:

I would determine what your goals/funds are and then do in stages.  If you are not going to compete in shows or not worried about resale value and want more  power then a swap might be better/cheaper. Go look at the price of overhaul kits for the present engine vs a 60-70s engine.  If you keep the present engine, would overhaul first, drive around and get the feel of it, if you get bored after a while then add dual headers and multi carbs, high energy ignition. If you get bored with that and have the funds then add a turbo, but don't expect the overhaul to last very long.  Lower end crankshaft/mains strength and old piston designs probably aren't suited for a turbo.  Do things in stages to have something to compare against.

If you do the V8 swap correctly and cleanly, resale value goes up. Unless you have a super rare car, hotrods/streetrods almost always bring more $$$$. If it's a butcher job, not likely.  Same goes for the  turbo.  I would do the turbo in a minute and never look back.

Remember, there only needs to be one stock example of a car, the rest can be hotrodded or modified to your liking.

Adam

[55 Fargo]

Just now, Adam H P15 D30 said:

If you do the V8 swap correctly and cleanly, resale value goes up. Unless you have a super rare car, hotrods/streetrods almost always bring more $$$$. If it's a butcher job, not likely.  Same goes for the  turbo.  I would do the turbo in a minute and never look back.

Remember, there only needs to be one stock example of a car, the rest can be hotrodded or modified to your liking.

Adam

I like the Turbo idea, can make a 218 perform like a 318.

I have not seen many, there are some guys in Sweden or Norway that have done it, can't see it being too difficult.

Even in stock form I have revved these engines to over 4 grand...without blowing them up

[55 Fargo]

6 minutes ago, Ajgkirkwood said:

Thing is from looking. I cant seem to find connecting rods and pistons for it. If i knew a good lead it keep the flathead.

 

How i know if it has a fluid cupler

Pistons no problem, rods, why do you need rods? If the rods need oversize bearings no problem same for the mains.

Seriously PM timkingsbury, he can help you with this big time.

Fluid coupler, can you let the clutch out and the engine does not stall, and the car is not moving till you hit the gas, thats a fluid coupler like a centrifugal clutch almost...

[Bryan]

https://www.kanter.com/ecatalog/00048.html

[dpollo]

a stock rebuild of a 264 will move your car around just fine and even better if you have the overdrive which was offered in 40. The later R 10 will fit as well.   Better carburation and  exhaust can always be added later.   My personal choice for this car would be a 228. 4 1/4 stroke for good revs and at least an .060 overbore.   Ask Fargo 55. he has one in his pickup and it is at least as heavy as your car.  3400 lbs.

Not all 40 Chryslers had Fluid Drive and if I gathered your earlier remarks correctly, yours does not.   You asked another question which I do not see answered .  A business Coupe has no back seat .  An "opera " Coupe has jump seats, A Club Coupe has a full back seat and a car like yours is called a Coach.

Years ago I got beat up on the forum by someone who had never heard of the term Opera Coupe and maybe some who would call a coach a two door sedan  so some of these terms may be regional.  Your license plate suggests Ontario so we should not be out of synch too much, language wise.

[Frank Elder]

You have a very nice start to your adventure, 2 door sedans are pretty neat cars.....mostly you see 4 door sedans and coupes on here so your car is indeed a breath of fresh air on here....welcome to the forum.

[Plymouthy Adams]

opera coupe is wording associated with other makes particularly GM and Ford and well technically was a car you would travel to the opera without need to remove the top hot, words like the tudor sedan is often mistakenly carried over to hang on any car with just two doors..a slam to many roadsters...lol.........the Mopar used the term ASC (auxiliary seat coupe) for those models with the fold down jump seats...mounted into the business coupe bodies.  I know, nit picking, car terminology today is so misused that the forerunning founders of the industry would 5turn over in their graves.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Just now, Frank Elder said:

You have a very nice start to your adventure, 2 door sedans are pretty neat cars.....mostly you see 4 door sedans and coupes on here so your car is indeed a breath of fresh air on here....welcome to the forum.

I find the two door sedan truly very pleasing to the eye...while it is not as personal as the coupes, primary that of the business coupe it is far better than the club coupe in looks in my opinion ....would hate to rile the club coupe owners here but am sure it will.....the roofline  along with the long side glass has a lot going for it on a vehicle this size.

[55 Fargo]

1 hour ago, dpollo said:

a stock rebuild of a 264 will move your car around just fine and even better if you have the overdrive which was offered in 40. The later R 10 will fit as well.   Better carburation and  exhaust can always be added later.   My personal choice for this car would be a 228. 4 1/4 stroke for good revs and at least an .060 overbore.   Ask Fargo 55. he has one in his pickup and it is at least as heavy as your car.  3400 lbs.

Not all 40 Chryslers had Fluid Drive and if I gathered your earlier remarks correctly, yours does not.   You asked another question which I do not see answered .  A business Coupe has no back seat .  An "opera " Coupe has jump seats, A Club Coupe has a full back seat and a car like yours is called a Coach.

Years ago I got beat up on the forum by someone who had never heard of the term Opera Coupe and maybe some who would call a coach a two door sedan  so some of these terms may be regional.  Your license plate suggests Ontario so we should not be out of synch too much, language wise.

Hi Dave, yes often wondered what my 228 would be like rebuilt, and how it would stack up against a stock 265.

There is a 228 for sale in Winnipeg, rebuilt at some point supposed to be a good runner 200 buck$. 

Op you gotta pick it up....

Edited November 2, 2017 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[Andydodge]

Plymouthy is correct re the Coupe descriptions..........I had a 1941 Plymouth Auxillary Seat Coupe, note in 1940/41 Plymouth used the same body shell for both the ASC and Business Coupes but stuck a pair of small folding rear seats in the ASC versions, the ASC was also an option in other mopars as well but in 1942 Plymouth introduced the Club Coupe with a slightly longer roof to allow a proper rear seat and kept the old coupe body for the Business Coupe whilst Dodge, DeSoto & Chrysler also introduced a 3 window coupe as their Business Coupe and a longer roofed coupe for their rear seat..........have attached a pic of the rear seat in the ASC 41 Plymouth Coupe I had........your 2 dr sedan is a nice car..................andyd