STX123 Posted June 27, 2017 Report Share Posted June 27, 2017 Installed my rebuilt steering box, and I don't remember exactly how the shift rods attach back to that mechanism that is on the shift handle rod, that runs along the steering shaft tube. I don't have reverse right now. Would anyone have a pic, or can talk me thru the way they should go? They kinda fell back into place, but I don't know what to try and fix right now. It's definitely the rod attachment points on that piece, because I didn't touch anything on the trans. Any direction would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDoctor Posted June 27, 2017 Report Share Posted June 27, 2017 Have you looked in the service manual for that car??? Do you have the service manual for that car??? If not, that’d be the first thing that should be on your “gotta get” list. As for the specifics of your question—I can’t answer it with certainty, but knuckleharley can!!! And, in my opinion, what he doesn’t know isn’t worth knowing . . . Just my position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpollo Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 If you have all three forward gears you are well on the way. Make sure first, that the column is properly seated on the steering box and that the shaft goes through the dashboard column clamp on center. Make sure this clamp is tight. Then take some of the slack out of the selector rod under the column. There are two 7/16 nuts there, one jamming the other so this rod can be adjusted. It needs just a little free play. If you tighten it too much, you will have first and reverse but no low and high. To understand the operation of these levers, have someone move the column lever through its various movements while you watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STX123 Posted July 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 (edited) I received my parts manual, so now I have both service and parts, but it still doesnt show the shifter rods. There are two rods, one that attaches to the lever assembly, and the other rod goes to a lower lever, which has a piece that rides on the assembly part. Is this bottom rod the one that controls reverse? I can take the rod that has the bushing and nut thru it, and push down into a gear. Pull it up one click, and that seems to be neutral. Pull it up again, and its in gear again, maybe 2nd gear? So now im thinking that when you pull that shifter lever towards you and up, that bottom rod should come into play, and go into reverse? I have a friend coming over tomorrow night, so he can sit in the car and press the clutch in, while I move the rods, and see if I can find reverse. If I know what the rods are for, I can prob put it together to make it work. I'll try to attach some pics of what I got here. The first pic is from under looking up. I believe I have the rods in the right position. Is the upper rod supposed to move freely in that oval space it goes thru, Or do you kinda put it in the middle and tighten it up? Edited July 6, 2017 by STX123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAubuchon Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 I've had the same problems before. One thing in your favor is that the rods for back into where you you thought you should be. Both rods move at the same time yet I believe there is only one rod you can adjust. You know the shifting pattern my experience. Is syncing reverse. Put it up I jack stands, see how it shifts. May need to lengthen or shorten. Just a little. I'd even start it and shift while running. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STX123 Posted July 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 Had a Buddy come over tonight to help me out. We did put the rear up on stands, and began playing with the rods. Finally we disconnected the rods off the trans just to see what is supposed to do what. The bottom rod will give you first and reverse, and thats the rod that is giving me the problem. We finally got it to go in reverse without the bottom rod being hooked up. I have to figure out how to take the slack out of this rod. It all worked fine before I took it apart. When you move the shift lever towards you, it moves that piece at the end of the shift lever rod, where the other piece rides in that groove. This seems to be loose also. I'm close. I know what i'm doing Saturday morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STX123 Posted July 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 Its definitely a problem with the selector shift rod that controls 1st and reverse. I had everything apart and put back together so many times now, that I can do it blindfolded. I now know what every nut, bolt, spring, lever, and washer is supposed to do. I have taken out all slack from that selector rod. I got it to go into reverse once with the column shift lever, and then it just goes forward. If I get underneath and pull the selector itself just a touch more, it goes into reverse. That selector rod looks like someone has put more bends in it. Just doesn't look like some factory bends would. I'm going to look into maybe getting another rod. I just dont understand how everything worked before. Seems like that selector on the trans should not engage by just that little bit. You would think that it should fall into place without an eighth of an inch making a difference. maybe the rod is so bent that its not pulling at the right angle, and that's why that little bit is so critical?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightmo52 Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 go to vintage in farmingdale im sure the guy there can help you, he knows alot about the plymouth cars he helped me with my 1953 wagon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pflaming Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 To connect mine, I went under the vehicle and had a friend slowly go through the shifting pattern. In a matter of minutes I had it correctly connected. Then I fabricated a floor shifter which has no adjustments, much nicer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STX123 Posted July 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Mightmo52, I by chance was looking online at shift linkages, bushings, anything to just get a pic of what I might need, and I came across a "Vintage" add. When I called him and found out he was in Farmingdale, I went the very next day!! I'm in Amityville, so it was so close. Mike is awesome!! He has everything for these cars, and is so knowledgeable about these parts. Once I get it to go into reverse I'm bringing the car to him so he can look at the floor pans, and the convertible top that I need. I'm going to pull the selector rod back out, and bring it down to him so we can match one up. pflaming, is the selector linkage on the trans that sensitive that an eighth of an inch would keep it from selecting 1st and reverse? Would the angle of the rod pulling on it make a difference? Thanks for the reply's guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pflaming Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) I do not know just how to reply to the sensitivity of that adjustment but I doubt it. I had no trouble shifting until I lubed the shifting mechanism, then when I lifted the lever to engage R and 1st, the yoke on the shaft kept slipping out and the lever dropped back. I eventually discovered that a ridge of steel hard dirt had formed on the shaft and lubricated was slick as snot and let the yoke disengage. Once I pried that crusty dirt out, the yoke stayed on the shaft. I discovered that by getting under the vehicle and closely watching what was happening while a friend worked the shifting lever very slowly. Now to the adjustable end. I followed the manual's instructions and it now is dependable. I hope this helps. Something looks wrong in the adjuster rod picture. Since you are working with a car and I with a truck, maybe that's why it looks a bit different to me. I copied your pic then cropped it and lightened it to improve the clarity. I wish you the best. Edited July 11, 2017 by pflaming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STX123 Posted July 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Wow, the pics look great, definitely clearer, thank you.I guess i'm just down to finding that happy adjustment with the rods. I tried putting the question out there on Google to see other info, and it had a link to this site, from back in 2014, with someone having a 1st and reverse problem. Most of the discussion was about the rods. Do you see where the adjusting nuts are in the pic? This was where it was back when it worked. Now, I have the nuts as far in as it can go, compressing that spring all the way. That is how I removed all the slack as per the manual, and it still won't engage. I don't know how it worked before, with the nuts where they are in the pic, because then its not even close to pulling the selector on the trans forward enough. Again, thanks for all the suggestions, and comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STX123 Posted July 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 Hey guys, just saw your messages to me. I'm still new at navigating this site so I didn't know to check the PM's. The pics def help. I will be back at it tomorrow after 5pm with my buddy again. I'm hoping with the both of us now looking again, we will figure it out. Thanks again for the messages and pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STX123 Posted July 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 Finally!!!!! Got reverse. So I went down to see Mike from Vintage to see if I could look at a trans and feel how the selector lever felt. It felt just like mine did. Mike was also convinced like everyone here, that it was still in the rod adjustments. From reading everyone's reply's, the word "Syncing" stood out. Both rods have to work together at the same time. I'm attaching pics to explain what my column sleeve looks like. There are a lot of holes in it, where I guess people have positioned the Column shift lever in different places. I put it back where it came out of. The worn paint area even proves that it was in that position. But not getting the proper throw made me take the whole shift lever rod and lever, and move it up towards the steering wheel like a 1/2". I knew I had something when I went to put in reverse, and it binded. I then went under and backed off the selector rod adjustment nuts to where they were almost originally. Shifted into reverse, (said a prayer), let my foot of the clutch, and looked at the rear wheel going in reverse!!! Holy crap!! I couldn't get it off the jack stands fast enough! Took her for a ride, and she shifted great. Reverse is dependable. The sad part about all this is, that I took it all apart to get the steering box rebuilt so the car would steer better.............and...............the steering is still just as horrendous!!! Cant thank you all enough for the help. I hope this will help someone else in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 STX..........I'd either be getting another steering column tube or repairing that one as the choice of holes there don't appear to be real good.... lol........also before you pull the steering box out have you had the steering box adjusted?, also does it have any oil?.......some people put grease in them but they should have a heavy oil, which once the lower seal wears mostly runs out.........lol..........but I'd try some oil and adjustments first........also there is a pair of rubber isolators between the steering box and chassis and chassis and outside plate, this rubber if subjected to leaking oil goes to mush after many years and will allow a lot of movement of the steering box..........these pair of rubber isolators are used from 1939 to the early 50's at least and turn up on ebay and sometimes places like Bernbaums..........I just reread this thread...............what was supposedly done on the steering box?..........andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 14 minutes ago, Andydodge said: STX..........I'd either be getting another steering column tube or repairing that one as the choice of holes there don't appear to be real good.... lol........also before you pull the steering box out have you had the steering box adjusted?, also does it have any oil?.......some people put grease in them but they should have a heavy oil, which once the lower seal wears mostly runs out.........lol..........but I'd try some oil and adjustments first........also there is a pair of rubber isolators between the steering box and chassis and chassis and outside plate, this rubber if subjected to leaking oil goes to mush after many years and will allow a lot of movement of the steering box..........these pair of rubber isolators are used from 1939 to the early 50's at least and turn up on ebay and sometimes places like Bernbaums..........I just reread this thread...............what was supposedly done on the steering box?..........andyd Agreed time to weld that up or find another Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STX123 Posted July 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 The steering was the original issue, and having it up on the lift, everything seemed tight. So that left the steering box. It just seemed you had to move the steering wheel so much before anything happened anywhere in the front end parts, so thats when I pulled it out and had it rebuilt. We never tried adjusting it, because I figured it was so old anyway, might as well rebuild it. I hope they filled it with the proper lubricant that it needed.Now, I will say, that the rubber isolators are shot, and i'm missing one of the bolt sleeves that go thru the chassis to the steering box. I'm going to be bringing her down to Mike at Vintage, who actually has the same car. He has all those isolators and sleeves. If he does wheel alignments, I'll let him do the front end, or whatever the car needs. I also need tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pflaming Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) All of that will help, but if your king pins are problematic, it will never go straight down the road. Edit: when I built my truck the pins were suspect, so I had new ones pressed in. The mechanic had a jig that assured they were perfectly parallel. Even at 70 mph it tracks like a train. I do have radial tires on all four corners. Edited July 19, 2017 by pflaming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STX123 Posted July 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 pflaming, thats exactly what Mike said about the king pins. I just dropped the car off. He drove it and said he will go thru it and let me know. It was an exciting trip to say the least. Man that car is all over the place. Unfortunately, he thinks the place that rebuilt my steering box did not do the right thing. He even said it did not feel right. We shall see. I'm in it for the long expensive haul. My Uncle passed and left me a few cars, and I want to do the right thing as a tribute. Will keep the car in the family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightmo52 Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 they worked on my car about 2 years ago. he was honest and did a great job. he knows his stuff let me tell you. nick is his in house fabricator and built some crazy hot rods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STX123 Posted July 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 (edited) Put new isolator rubber pads, and installed the missing bolt sleeve for the steering box, and tightened everything to spec. It's a whole lot better. I guess your steering box not moving around is important..LOL. Anyway, I purchased new tie rod ends, so I will install them, I will order new tires for the front, and send her out for an alignment, and I actually might have a car that steers pretty good. Next will be the brake system, then floor pans, and a convertible top. Then just enjoy the car for awhile. Thanks for the help guys. Anyone suggest tire brands, and who to but from? Going with the G-78-15, 2.5" WW, in a radial. Thanks. Edited July 27, 2017 by STX123 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medium_jon Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 2 hours ago, STX123 said: enjoy the car for awhile She's a beauty. I can't have her though, no dry place to park her -- my garage has stuff, not cars. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STX123 Posted July 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2017 Thank you very much. She still needs a ton of work. Yeah, I had to build a shed just to keep her dry. She lost her spot in the garage to the 2015 Mustang. Lol. But the shed is nice, and the more I fix her up, the more attention the 49 is getting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgreg53 Posted August 23, 2017 Report Share Posted August 23, 2017 If I change to radial tires on my 48 sedan, Will I have to change the alignment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pflaming Posted August 23, 2017 Report Share Posted August 23, 2017 For practical purposes, probably not, for purist reasons yes! And the purist reason is the better reason. If I drove it a lot, I would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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